Most Debated TNG Controversies

[Mojochi]

I've been talking & debating Star Trek: The Next Generation for what amounts to a real generation now... some 25 years. We always find a way back to some of the same arguments, whether it's because newer fans dig them up again, or because there's only so much material that we just stumble in there now & again

I thought we could have a poll to see what 3 we all think are some of the most heated ones that just won't go away. I'm not intending to get everyone arguing about them again, (Could happen anyway lol) but it is a very interesting part of our community, & it's a really provocative aspect to the show, that at its time, I don't think anyone had intended.

Shows in current times now actually write their stories knowing that their fanbase most likely will take to the web to argue about them, but TNG predates a lot of that. So in a way, it was one of the 1st to receive that treatment

I probably forgot some btw

 

[STEPhon IT]

How in the world Troi outranks Data??? Or Geordi??? She doesn't even qualify to be on the bridge of the Enterprise. Feh!

Correction Alert!!! I had to correct this flub.

 

[ATimson]

How in the world Troi outranks Data??? Or Geordi??? She doesn't even quality to be on the bridge of the Enterprise. Feh!

Real life militaries draw a distinction between staff officers and line officers. Troi may have had a higher rank, but she wasn't eligible for command; she's there to support those who are.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

I chose the "What to do with Hugh the Borg" option. It's been puzzling me since I first watched the episode. Had I been in the same situation as the crew, I have no idea what I would have done...It's one of those situations that basically have no easy solution.

 

[Nyotarules]

You missed does the Federation have money lol

 

[BillJ]

Troi may have had a higher rank, but she wasn't eligible for command; she's there to support those who are.

"Disaster" disagrees with you.

 

[Mojochi]

You missed does the Federation have money lol

I thought about that one, lol. It didn't seem to be specifically a TNG argument, albeit, it wasn't until TNG started in with their utopia stuff that it became an issue. No doubt, that may be our biggest argument in Trek history

"Disaster" disagrees with you.

I don't know. Even that's debatable, given that all she had on deck was a chief & 2 ensigns. They all may very well have just as little command qualification as she does, in which case, her rank may be all that matters in this one case. The recently deceased watch officer was only a lieutenant, & she was in command

I guess I should've included the ongoing debate about rank lol

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Besides the money thing, I think the biggest debate is the 'Let them all die because of the prime directive' episodes.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I'm always perplexed by the whole Jellico being a bad Captain thing. He wouldn't have made Captain if his service record hadn't warranted it, wouldn't have been given command of a ship if he wasn't competent, and wouldn't have been given the Federation flagship if he didn't deserve it. Just because he had a more direct manner and didn't mesh with Riker or La Forge doesn't make him a bad Captain, had he remained onboard permanently then he likely would've replaced some of the crew with those he felt a better fit.

Similar to how Nechayev is frequently called a bitch, despite being a damn fine officer--simply because she wasn't a fan of Picard doesn't make her a bad character, it just makes her real (she's his boss, they don't have to like each other, he just needs to follow her orders).

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think you can just easily call Jelico good or bad. He was clearly competent, very clever, and very good at war tactics.

Managing subordinates he was rather poor at. And negotiating without being able to make physical threats, he was especially poor. That little drama about "He can be unreasonable so you have to be more reasonable" was childish and obvious and would never have worked.

 

[Mojochi]

Managing subordinates he was rather poor at.

In that specific circumstance, one might interpret it that way, but do we really know that it was all on him? He was given this job, & that part of it was certainly not optimal, & maybe concessions had to be made for efficiency's sake, & "A honeymoon with the crew" was unrealistic in the timetable

And negotiating without being able to make physical threats, he was especially poor. That little drama about "He can be unreasonable so you have to be more reasonable" was childish and obvious and would never have worked.

Except that it did, because these were aliens with unusual behavior, that he was well versed in. We only have one command performance to judge the guy on, & it is admittedly an unusual situation, with an alien lifeform. We don't know at all that he'd be treating newly assigned subordinates this way, if he were in a different circumstance that wasn't clinch, brink of war, brinkmanship, & we don't know that he'd treat all negotiations like this one. I kind of figure an experienced captain is probably more adaptive than that, myself

Besides the money thing, I think the biggest debate is the 'Let them all die because of the prime directive' episodes.

Do people debate that though? Most often I never see anyone siding with the "let em all die, for the PD" thing. It's mostly agreed it was a pretty dumb thing for them to have been doing, isn't it? I could be wrong

 

[Makarov]

Probably Hugh, Crystalline Entity and the Jellico thing seem the most controversial to me. All are more debatable situations than anything in Discovery imo. Although in my opinion Voyager's Tuvix tops anything in TNG for controversy

I think the Jellico thing is unique because the actor and writing portray him sympathetically so fans take up his, the "follow orders and just do your job" point of view in defense of him.

It's odd though because it goes against much of Star Trek where there's so many instances of characters breaking the rules to save a few friends. Usually risking some sort of war in the process. If Riker had completely disobeyed orders and just stolen a shuttle to go and rescue Picard I don't think many would still be arguing in favor of just following Jellico's orders.

 

[Artoo Atari]

I always found Up The Long Ladder to be somewhat more offensive than Code of Honor. I can certainly see how using African American actors to portray aliens within the latter episode's context would be offensive. However, a great deal of paddywhackery was stuffed in to the former to portray the Irish settlers as Irish, not alien.

 

[Tosk]

I'm surprised the "should the Federation take the planet or not?" of Insurrection didn't make the list. I'll assume it's due to being a movie.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Except that it did, because these were aliens with unusual behavior, that he was well versed in. We only have one command performance to judge the guy on, & it is admittedly an unusual situation, with an alien lifeform. We don't know at all that he'd be treating newly assigned subordinates this way, if he were in a different circumstance that wasn't clinch, brink of war, brinkmanship, & we don't know that he'd treat all negotiations like this one. I kind of figure an experienced captain is probably more adaptive than that, myself

I'm referring to the negotiation table where he flipped out, stormed out of the room, then told Deanna to go back in and spin a tale about him being unhinged. This drama did not and would never have accomplished anything. What worked was the mines. The Cardassian saw right through his ridiculous farse.

 

[Leathco]

I'm surprised the "should the Federation take the planet or not?" of Insurrection didn't make the list. I'll assume it's due to being a movie.

I just like how Picard totally changed. On the D in the show, he was cool with the Cardassians taking back the native american settled planet. Just a few years later, he is fighting against a forced relocation, although he was complicit with one just a few years prior.

 

[Mojochi]

I'm referring to the negotiation table where he flipped out, stormed out of the room, then told Deanna to go back in and spin a tale about him being unhinged. This drama did not and would never have accomplished anything. What worked was the mines. The Cardassian saw right through his ridiculous farse.

I know what negotiation scene you mean. It was still Jellico's "Timberwolf" jockeying for dominance thing, that he'd told Troi about, just like making him wait an hour before even going in was too, or bringing Riker & Troi in & suggesting he was alarmed by it.

I'd say it saw as much success as Jellico expected, because the next time we see the Cardassian, he has two aids with him too... just like Jellico said he would. I saw nothing to indicate that the Cardassian "saw though" any of Jellico's behavior in that first encounter. He seemed genuinely taken aback, which was the intention, to get him on his heels immediately. It played exactly how Jellico said it would.

Mind you, this is all until everyone knows Picard has been captured. Once that's established, Jellico lays off this song & dance, as the game has changed. I'm not saying it would be useful against humans, or in reality, but these are fictional aliens with whom he's had extensive dealings. It's fair to assume he's employed these social tactics numerous times, with equal amounts of success. It's just a routine opening game he employs

I'm surprised the "should the Federation take the planet or not?" of Insurrection didn't make the list. I'll assume it's due to being a movie.

I hadn't really thought of that one. Does it get a lot of heated debate?

 

[suarezguy]

I think evaluations of Jellico and the Hugh dilemma, followed by either that Riker killed his clone or that he didn't accept promotion to captain.

 

[Mojochi]

I think evaluations of Jellico and the Hugh dilemma, followed by either that Riker killed his clone or that he didn't accept promotion to captain.

I forgot that one too, Riker being a #1 for so long. I don't know if it gets ferociously debated, but it has been talked about a TON

 

[suarezguy]

Or maybe just Hugh and both Riker moments since most people who dislike Jellico still believe he is a pretty competent/good captain though also flawed rather than, as his big fans believe, great and pretty much flawless.