Not even then, IMO. I mean, just because everyone agrees doesn't make it objectively true. Nothing would make anything objectively true, as I see it.
USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?
- Thread starter EJD1984
- Start date
I'd love them to have taken the Enterprise for a spin, but I guess they need the Discovery's spore drive.
It's hard to say which ship is more advanced, but I'd argue the Constitution-class is still the more state of the art. From what was said in the opening few episodes, it seems the fleet is made up of ships that have been in service for a long time, dating back to the early few decades of the Federation. All of them at the Binary Stars were apparently still using phase cannons, which seem to be the same weapons the Discovery uses.
The only thing the Discovery has which seems to be more advanced is the TMP-like main deflector. The nacelles don't look any different to the other ancient ships.
I hope that’s the case. I always imagined that the Connie was the jewel in the starfleet crown.
I thought that it was odd in those episodes that they seemed to use “phasers” and “phase cannons” interchangeably. I guessed that the shenzhou was old when they mentioned cannons but they later talked of phasers so I’m not sure which the ship is supposed to use.
That’s true - and the Enterprise nacelles look like the NX-01 nacelles suggesting they’re based on an older design. I wonder if the horizontal warp core of the Connie was an upscaled version of Henry Archer’s design and the nacelles reflect that too?
If we go by the Okuda chronology, it launched in 2245. So more than a decade. But I imagine it would've had periodic equipment upgrades, likely making in just as advanced as Discovery, outside the Spore Drive.
Enterprise has had a refit since she looks different to TOS? She’s more state of the art than disco for all we know.
^^^All that does is escalate something that doesn't belong....which doesn't reinforce your credibility.
The vibe that comes across is that you seem to think that films have to have a high level of cerebral content to be worthy of appreciation on any level. And that's just not the case. That's subjective. If that's not how you feel, then consider how it sounds by the way you present it.
At least the computer systems, since Daystrom designed them and they were considered state of the art.
Pretty much this. I'll admit my bias, but I have yet to hear an objective criticism to the films that wasn't slanted in some way. It is the nature of things.
Good point - wasn’t that why the constitution class was chosen to participate in the M-5 war games in the first place?
Yes, because Daystrom was going from duotronic to multitronic, if I recall correctly.
It really depends on what sort of thing one appreciates. For me the plots of the two first Kelvin films were too much based on series of implausible coincidences and characters behaving illogically that I could truly enjoy them. Whilst Beyond was no way flawless, there I felt that both the plot and characterisation were way more coherent, if somewhat simple, so I liked it much more. I could go into specifics, but that is probably best left for another thread.
Fair enough. I absolutely love Kirk's story and how he moves through it and that, as I stated, makes me biased. Mileage will vary, but I haven't found an objective way to state that it is bad.
I\m still waiting for one legitimate "objective" argument of ST09's poor storytelling that wasn't either total bullshit or slathered in pretentious condescension.
I've been waiting ten years.
I've been waiting ten years.
Well, it's certainly a possiblity. We don't know for sure that Enterprise wasn't refitted.
Ah ok, just so I’m clear. For a minute there I thought I was going to have to deal with an extensive and well-supported argument
Probably had to have been. Some changes to the bridge dome area between the pilots and TOS. Plus they went from 200 to 400 crew.
Fanon is that it underwent a semi-major refit between "Where No Man..." and the series proper. No reason to think something similar won't happen here.
I said I would not elaborate about ST:09, but I can't stop myself, so very briefly.
Examples of things I'd call 'bad story telling':
-Spock jettisons Kirk (This makes no sense whatsoever. Surely they have a brig? Or just a empty closet? This is not plausible behaviour. This was a hostile planet, what if that monster had eaten Kirk?)
-Kirk happens to land on same planet than old Spock was jettisoned earlier, they happen to meet, and they happen to find -the only other person on the planet, who happens to be the person who can build the highly implausible warp transporter.
-Kirk makes Spock angry and assumes command, though he was relieved from command earlier...
After this sequence of events, I just could not take the film seriously. If this doesn't bother you, fine, bothered me a lot. But this is the sort of stuff I mean. Most films have some such moments, but here the frequency just was so high that it completely ruined the film for me.
For more in depth look, I think this review points out many of the same issues I had with the film:
http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2011/02/25/2009-star-trek-reboot/
Examples of things I'd call 'bad story telling':
-Spock jettisons Kirk (This makes no sense whatsoever. Surely they have a brig? Or just a empty closet? This is not plausible behaviour. This was a hostile planet, what if that monster had eaten Kirk?)
-Kirk happens to land on same planet than old Spock was jettisoned earlier, they happen to meet, and they happen to find -the only other person on the planet, who happens to be the person who can build the highly implausible warp transporter.
-Kirk makes Spock angry and assumes command, though he was relieved from command earlier...
After this sequence of events, I just could not take the film seriously. If this doesn't bother you, fine, bothered me a lot. But this is the sort of stuff I mean. Most films have some such moments, but here the frequency just was so high that it completely ruined the film for me.
For more in depth look, I think this review points out many of the same issues I had with the film:
http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2011/02/25/2009-star-trek-reboot/
Oh, no, they just restocked the redshirts.
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