How Do You Feel About Chakotay?

[cosmic mouse]

I've posted the line counts before and Janeway is always at the top. The Doc and Seven are 2 and 3 but not by very much at all. Another thing I've done in the past is break down every episode based on which character(s) is/are featured and it also broke down fairly even (except for Harry)

Yeah, I actually counted them one time when I was bored one day...if memory serves Janeway did have significantly more than anyone else, but she's the Captain (and the centerpiece of the show, so to speak), so that's expected. Seven and the Doc were close in the 2nd spot, but pretty far behind J and then Tom was next and he had only slightly fewer than the Doc. I only counted seasons for which Seven was present (so not counting the others' lines from 1-3). Tuvok might have actually been next, but I can't remember and I think I threw that scrap of paper away.

 

[Lynx]

nobody is to blame for your actions. If they acted unprofessionally it's on them, not any producer or higher up. You are responsible for your own actions.

That's right!

But if I work for a jerk and one day I lose my temper and tell him where to go, then I might act unprofessional but all the fault may be the jerk's.

In this case, there were people in charge who created a situation which ruined the good camradrie which had been among the people involved.

 

[Sophie74656]

That's right!

But if I work for a jerk and one day I lose my temper and tell him where to go, then I might act unprofessional but all the fault may be the jerk's.

In this case, there were people in charge who created a situation which ruined the good camradrie which had been among the people involved.

No. The "jerk" has some fault for pushing you, but how you react is entirely up to you. You are at fault for your own actions.

in regards to the show. if the producers did something the actors didn't like they are still responsible for their own actions. If they acted unprofessionally it is still their own fault.

You, and only you are responsible for your behavior.

 

[catshadowsi8]

I broke it down based on who the episode featured most even if others play a minor supprting role (for example Renaissance Man is about the Doctor, not Janeway) and it was 2/3rd for the top three (7, doc, and captain.) That's not including ensamble episodes like Workforce.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Even my "Favourite Riker Moments" thread in TNG didn't get responses of this magnitude ...!!!

 

[Sophie74656]

Even my "Favourite Riker Moments" thread in TNG didn't get responses of this magnitude ...!!!

Favorite riker moments are any time he does the riker maneuver

 

[2takesfrakes]

Enjoy ...

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[Lynx]

No. The "jerk" has some fault for pushing you, but how you react is entirely up to you. You are at fault for your own actions.

in regards to the show. if the producers did something the actors didn't like they are still responsible for their own actions. If they acted unprofessionally it is still their own fault.

You, and only you are responsible for your behavior.

In that case, I prefer to teach the jerk a lesson and feel good about it!
No one messes with The Lynx!

 

[Sophie74656]

In that case, I prefer to teach the jerk a lesson and feel good about it!
No one messes with The Lynx!

Feel however you want about it, but you have to deal with the consequences of your action....if you punch a coworker who was pushing you, you are the one who gets fired.

 

[Refuge]

Again mostly I don't notice unless it is the way a story plays out based on who I might prefer. Like Tuvok. I think an example was given that in 'Tsunkatse' Seven and Tuvok were BOTH capable of being in the role of a ring fighter. She with her enhanced Borg capabilities and he being Vulcan. It would have worked for B'Elanna as well but she was back on Voyager. Anyway the way the story was written Tuvok is badly injured and Seven takes the lead. I like Seven but this would have been an opportunity for the character Tuvok to have more airtime.

 

[Lynx]

Feel however you want about it, but you have to deal with the consequences of your action....if you punch a coworker who was pushing you, you are the one who gets fired.

Not on Voyager. There you'll get a promotion to Chief Engineer if you hit a co-worker.

No, seriously, I won't hit anyone if no one hits me first. Despite my sometimes mean attitude, I'm not a violent person.
In a similar case, i would rather come up with some really nasty remarks to that jerk and believe me, I'm good at that.

If the jerk then loses his/her themper and hits me, then that person will be fired, not me!

 

[Artoo Atari]

Never really cared for Chakotay. My feelings toward the character generally ranged from mild indifference to mild irritation. Not trying to be mean, but had they removed him from a scene and replaced him with a box of stem bolts, I dont think I would have noticed.

 

[Catarina]

Never really cared for Chakotay. My feelings toward the character generally ranged from mild indifference to mild irritation. Not trying to be mean, but had they removed him from a scene and replaced him with a box of stem bolts, I dont think I would have noticed.

I can understand why you feel that way.
I'd miss him though. I have a scintilla of affection because I see his potential and we have had a dash of it here and there. I wanted so much for him to be his full potential on that show as her first officer and we didn't get it. Disappointing but I can't imagine anyone else in that seat.

 

[suarezguy]

He was an OK character. Sometimes inconsistent and yet tending to be too stiff & deferential and yet he was still pretty interesting in his loyalty to Janeway, times he disagreed with her, and determination to have the crew work well together (but OTOH his insistence on following routines and protocols felt at best overdone). His closeness with B'Elanna was often really well-done and adding to the episode.

 

[BillJ]

He had high and low points like every other character. But he mostly took a back seat once Seven of Nine arrived.

I can see how that would wear on an actor and begin to affect his performances.

 

[Qonundrum]

nobody is to blame for your actions. If they acted unprofessionally it's on them, not any producer or higher up. You are responsible for your own actions.

Unless the producer or higher up told to do something. It's simply unrealistic to pretend every action exists in a vacuum independent from every other.

Which isn't to say the assertion of responsibility and all that is wrong; one easy example of that is when a person who spreads a STD isn't being nudged by anyone else to spread it, they're just being mean and not all of those can be stopped with barrier protection. Which isn't to say to not use protection.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

As far as the character is concerned, I think the writers didn’t have a clear idea of how to make him distinctive, other than to throw mostly random Native American inspired dialogue his way occasionally, and in general I think Trek has struggled with its first officers. Spock being the exception more because they focused on his alien background and science officer duties. Being a human with no other job makes that position tough.

As for the actor, I thought his earlier performances were better generally than the later ones.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Personally, I like Chakotay -- in fact, he's one of my favourite characters in STAR TREK. I'd consider the character a natural leader and someone who's dependable and a good friend to those he calls his friends. And the women he's encountered were suitably impressed, as well. I like Robert Beltran's performances, as I consider him to be a very likeable actor. On the other hand ... I know, from having read and participated in this forum over time that these opinions I'm voicing here are not universal amongst you VOYAGER fans. To be Frank & Ernest, I'm hoping to be surprised by your responses.

I liked Beltran as well, and when the character of Chakotay had some screen time he showed what an interesting figure he was. IMO, Distant Origins was the best Voyager episode ever, I thought he was the perfect figure to represent humans and monologue was very moving during the climax of the episode. His character suffered from the producers going all in on making Janeway a super character; and I hated the debates between them because I knew by the end --whatever Janeway stood for that moment-- the topic would side with her. I never saw the point in making an XO toothless where his voice never mattered when it came to the context of the lazy stories Voyager aired.

Spock and Riker are the examples of an exemplary XO. They're not puppets to the CO and these men have their own special dichotomy for command and ethics which helps complete their Captain. For some reason Chakotay's dichotomy was not a great fit to "The Janeway system" at all, and along with Beltran fighting for more substance for his character, the writers made the character immaterial as the series moved on. There's no question, Chakotay was well respected, B'Elanna Torres played by the great Roxann Dawson always expressed a deep love and affection for the character, I wouldn't doubt if he implemented a mutiny--she would be the 1st to support it. B'Elanna loves Chakotay despite what the writers forced upon her; I thought their chemistry together was organic-- unlike the Riker wannabe Tom Paris.

I wish the writers were inventive and had more of the Voyager crew be inspired by the Maquis through Chakotay. I don't mean the terrorist actions and the bullshit we would see on DS9 war seasons, but an expanded philosophy within the Maquis culture which Starfleet men and women could embrace.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I liked Beltran as well, and when the character of Chakotay had some screen time he showed what an interesting figure he was. IMO, Distant Origins was the best Voyager episode ever, I thought he was the perfect figure to represent humans and monologue was very moving during the climax of the episode. His character suffered from the producers going all in on making Janeway a super character; and I hated the debates between them because I knew by the end --whatever Janeway stood for that moment-- the topic would side with her. I never saw the point in making an XO toothless where his voice never mattered when it came to the context of the lazy stories Voyager aired.

Spock and Riker are the examples of an exemplary XO. They're not puppets to the CO and these men have their own special dichotomy for command and ethics which helps complete their Captain. For some reason Chakotay's dichotomy was not a great fit to "The Janeway system" at all, and along with Beltran fighting for more substance for his character, the writers made the character immaterial as the series moved on. There's no question, Chakotay was well respected, B'Elanna Torres played by the great Roxann Dawson always expressed a deep love and affection for the character, I wouldn't doubt if he implemented a mutiny--she would be the 1st to support it. B'Elanna loves Chakotay despite what the writers forced upon her; I thought their chemistry together was organic-- unlike the Riker wannabe Tom Paris.

I wish the writers were inventive and had more of the Voyager crew be inspired by the Maquis through Chakotay. I don't mean the terrorist actions and the bullshit we would see on DS9 war seasons, but an expanded philosophy within the Maquis culture which Starfleet men and women could embrace.

Great post! Thanks for going into such detail, as I happen to agree with you. Distant Origins offered so much, in terms of taking the story to very strange places, which it certainly did not. It was strangely straightforward and really obvious in the point it was trying to make. But dinosaurs blasting into space of their own accord (!!!) was a pretty outrageous concept and it just wasn't investigated outside of that one, single theme: adherence to doctrine. Chakotay mentions all these great things he's been told, for example, about our dinosaurian brethren and we get to hear NONE of it. What we get is a very odd courtroom drama with actors in rubber dinosaur heads while Chakotay tries to preserve the peace. Nothing of value gets explored here and it's frustrating when you're a fan and you get baited with these fringe ideas only to find out the show's not even about that. To revolve this kind of story treatment around what's essentially a Chakotay story especially sucks, because he's one of the show's leads!

You make a very good point, also, about how Chakotay's arguments are never going to reach Janeway's decision stage, because they're not about that. They're brought up specifically TO BE shot down. That's no fun to act out, that's not interesting to watch. An argument that goes nowhere. What it comes down to, basically, is that Chakotay's got a dick and so he's wrong. That's all. It's a really cheap way of trying to demonstrate Janeway's leadership, but it's something any fool can write, so you've got these fools writing it into the scripts. I do understand Beltran's kind of just saying "you know what? Screw it. I don't even care, anymore." And just pick up his cheque every week. But that only makes HIM look bad to would-be casting people, down the line. The last thing you ever want to do is sell yourself short, but he responded emotionally rather than trying to make the best of a tough situation. Even at his worst, though, Chakotay always remained a natural leader and a good friend and those are qualities I always admired in him. He was also very unashamed of being a spiritual Man, which I thought was cool about him. It's something, though, how so much potential gets wasted for so little gain on a series like this ...

 

[STEPhon IT]

You're right nothing of value was explored in Distant Origins but could've been fleshed out in a future episode. I thought the episode's relevance lie on Chakotay's monologue; for me it was like modern humans ignoring the ancestral, primordial man and their life threatening, bone breaking obstacles to evolve--an achievement which was quite extraordinary-- and dismiss it for something more fantastical like what's written in the Bible.