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USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

I think that is meant to be a call forward to the movie Refit. It had fins there as well, though not as big.
True, but those fins flared in the opposite direction to the needless ones on the DSC redesign, and the TMP ones, being smaller and more subtle, seemed to fit the overall shape of the nacelle. These new fins are like the ones Tuvok told Paris to take off the design of the delta flyer.

Also, do we need calls forward to the TMP design? Are we so insecure about TOS that we need to say “don’t worry it’ll look like everyone’s favourite refit soon enough - look, triangle pylons! Look, fins on the nacelles!” The fact that the TMP design came after the TOS design means the prime Enterprise herself is a call forward to the TMP design in her entirety. They didn’t need to add extra shark fins or go faster stripes or a spoiler to remind us that one day the ship will look like someone with a better eye for starship design than Fuller (I.e. Probert) upgraded it.
 
That undergirds my whole point, actually: there hasn't been a good Trek ship design in twenty years. Eaves took things in a visibly different direction from what Trek ship aesthetics had looked like prior to that time, and it was a bad direction.

I'm not sure voicing your preferences counts as a "point", but ok. You're still wrong. It's like saying Bruce Dickinson doesn't "get" the essence of Iron Maiden when he's been their singer for decades, just because he wasn't there at the beginning.

But what's the point of it? It provides zero added value.

A lot of stuff on those ships have zero value, since 1964.
 
He isn't the only one who has some ambivalence about late post-TNG designs. Quite a lot of people are of two minds about them, as they are sometimes very nice looking, but also sometimes feel like they are from a more generic and un-periodised franchise. Arguably the Star Trek aesthetic before then had been very unadorned and utilitarian, with minimal "coolness"-only surface-features, then afterwards became very angular and ridged, full of grooves that seem to have no utility. By comparison, the Enterprise D is elegant, but has no 'fins':

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Initially as a kid, I, and many others, loved the Sovereign-class for example, but later, I found the design a bit boring, and I've heard many others who felt the same. Maybe that's just because of the amount of science fiction with furrowed complicated-ships that has proliferated since, to be fair. DS9 also tended toward making starships almost like a fighter. It's fine and everything, but Star Trek's sailing vessel aesthetic, of big lumbering warships pounding each other's shields was a unique feature and selling point of difference with other franchises.

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The original enterprise had a very iconic design, then The Motion Picture one did the ILM utilitarian-surface-detail thing with it, resulting in probably the most universally loved look in the series history, then people like Greg Jein did some interesting stuff for TNG, which I really like now in hindsight. But some of the newer post-TNG stuff sometimes looks a bit video-gamey, with ridges for ridges sake, I'm not dismissing Eaves talent, but this is just to give some perspective on why some fans are lukewarm about the Sovereign, or the Nimitz from DSC.

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Things from the TNG era which I originally didn't like as a 8 year old kid when I first saw them in the early 90s, have really grown more and more in stature as the years have gone by. The LCARS displays have aged really well. The rounded smooth and sculpted designs look really distinct and artistic. Check out Andrew Probert's Ambassador concept. Seeing it in behind-the-scenes production stuff as a kid, it probably didn't strike me as very interesting, but with lots more historical context now, I can see a lot of beauty in the design, lots of subtlety.

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At another extreme, the incredibly minimalist, industrial, and utilitarian design of the Planet of the Titans starship, now looks really interesting to me with, when, as a kid, it probably looked anachronistic or primitive. I like it so much more now because the concept art is very periodised, and could easily fit into early Starfleet history, as some kind of shuttle-carrier, or planetary survey ship, great as a wreak/hulk or outdated relic for the hero ship to come across.
 
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I'm less of a fan now than when I first saw her. In their drive to make almost everything "kewler" and "sexier" for the short attention span viewers in 2018 they've largely forgotten how to design good-looking starships or at best pretend they still can by throwing some bones to the audience in the form of a couple of cylindrical warp nacelles and a round TOS-style deflector dish.

Yep. The basic shape is okay, but when I see it up close it is just "ugh". Details just for the sake of details, which to me is pretty much as far from modern as you can get.

She's still the prettiest ship on DSC by a mile, but sadly that doesn't say nearly as much as it should.

No one would give a shit about it if it didn't have "Enterprise" painted on it.

***

What is up with the impulse engines? On the original, we had these two small ports that could move this massive starship to near the speed of light, which was pretty fucking cool. Now we get the Eaves special of massive impulse engines for no particular reason.
 
What is up with the impulse engines? On the original, we had these two small ports that could move this massive starship to near the speed of light, which was pretty fucking cool. Now we get the Eaves special of massive impulse engines for no particular reason.
You don’t think it’s related to the bridge window do you? Like “how will the audience know that the impulse engines are what they are and move the ship if they’re not massive glowing rocket boosters like something off the back of a star destroyer”?

In a similar approach to: “how do they see out the front of the thing if there’s not a window”?
 
You don’t think it’s related to the bridge window do you? Like “how will the audience know that the impulse engines are what they are and move the ship if they’re not massive glowing rocket boosters like something off the back of a star destroyer”?

I tend to think it is two different things at play: thinking the audience is too dumb to pick up on something that isn't big red and glowing (the impulse engines) and simply using an idea that is already available on some cars (HUD displays on clear windows).

Neither is imaginative, but the clear window with HUD display makes sense as it is a current technology, but something that the older shows didn't imagine or could afford.
 
You know, the majority of flat federation ships in the 24th century were not designed by John Eaves, the only one he designed was the Sovereign IIRC.

Voyager was Sternbach, the Steamrunner, Norway, Saber and Akira were all Alex Jaeger over at ILM.
 
I think this is particularly the case when you look at the nacelles. They look very similar to those of the NX-01 of nearly a century earlier.

Now, I have to admit I think the nx-01 didn’t look enough like a retrograde step from the 1701 on the outside. I love the overall design but the aesthetic looked more modern than the ship it was supposed to precede (I’d have made it a Daedalus class ship if I’m honest but it is what it is)

The thing with the DSC Enterprise is that yes it looks more “up to date for television etc etc” but why have nacelles that look a hundred years old (in-universe)? That goes against the logic of the apparent update of the design to me...

I agree, and what's more, they gave their NX and Refit design dual Pylons to the Nacelles? Really? Why? The Refit from the Movies didn't have two pylons to the Nacelles..so why have them on what is supposedly the TOS enterprise? Doesn't fit canon or engineering logic. If two pylons is advanced, then why would they end up with a single on the Kirk refit? Does that mean in this lie of a TOS continuity, that the refit will have the double pylons in the future? This is so wrong, and yet people still defend this as original universe. At this point, it's obvious it's not.

What was interesting was the significance in ENT that the TOS defiant ship in a Mirror Darkly, showed that the TOS constitution class was more advanced then the mirror universe NX class, and felt like it too. Even if the NX class had a more modern spaceship feel, the TOS Defiant felt sleek, simplified, and advanced based on that aesthetic. Not only that, the shield tech, and weapons tech was much more powerful then anything the NX class had, including Warp drive. So it was believeable in the ENT series of you could see how that is done.

I suppose STD could say there was a change to their tech, like some alien weapon was set off making ships have to be refit for safety and use, and all new Star fleet ships, and tech, including Klingon, and Romulan, all had to redesign their ships with extra radiation shielded interiors and exteriors. This could explain the TOS aesthetic on everything, from ships, to computer banks, their record tapes, and so on.. All based on a 30 year radiation spike that flooded the entire Alpha Quadrant, and Beta Quadrant. That would make sense all around. If the writers on STD are smart enough to think of something like that, then one could rationalize the design changes from Pike to Kirk and Starfleet wide. This is ofcourse, ignoring the glaring issues with Burnham and Sarek..seriously thinking about his ward, and not his own son when sarek thought he was dying?? Yea..no..
 
The TOS Enterprise was the young stud out to prove himself, the Discovery version is the fat, middle-aged dude who lost his hair and picked up a beer gut, living on past glory like a technological Al Bundy.

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agree, and what's more, they gave their NX and Refit design dual Pylons to the Nacelles? Really? Why? The Refit from the Movies didn't have two pylons to the Nacelles..so why have them on what is supposedly the TOS enterprise? Doesn't fit canon or engineering logic. If two pylons is advanced, then why would they end up with a single on the Kirk refit? Does that mean in this lie of a TOS continuity, that the refit will have the double pylons in the future? This is so wrong, and yet people still defend this as original universe. At this point, it's obvious it's not.
Dual pylons? What are you talking about?
 

It points to a serious lack of imagination that pretty much plagues the entirety of Discovery. Like I said before, you had two small ports on the TOS Enterprise that could move the ship to near the speed of light, it sparked the imagination. Now? You just have six glowing red rockets.
 
It points to a serious lack of imagination that pretty much plagues the entirety of Discovery. Like I said before, you had two small ports on the TOS Enterprise that could move the ship to near the speed of light, it sparked the imagination. Now? You just have six glowing red rockets.
We’ve had glowing impulse engines since TMP. They’ve been a staple of Star Trek design for 30 years.
 
engineering logic. If two pylons is advanced, then why would they end up with a single on the Kirk refit?
I can’t wrap my head around the split pylons either. Triangles, fine - they want to suggest the shape of the TMP design - ok I don’t agree but I understand the logic. But... with something as vital as the pylons that support the engine pods, would you want the deuterium supply in one pylon and the antimatter supply in a separate pylon? I would have thought keeping them in one protected pylon with multiple levels of shielding would have made more sense. Unless the implication is that the tos design is so poor that the only way for starfleet to keep the warp reactants apart was to separate the supplies in the engine pod support pylons.

In reality of course it’s just a needless change to make the ship “more moderner”.

the refit will have the double pylons in the future?
By the logic of the DSC continuity, the TMP refit is also dated and old so it will need to be “modernised” with extra support braces for the flimsy nacelle pylons and an impulse reactor that looks like it actually moves the ship to near light speeds. As such it will need to be upscale to twice the size - but that will be ok because the whole ship will be three times as large as before and have a window on the bridge. TMP will still have happened but all the visuals will be updated and TWoK will end 45 minutes earlier because the Enterprise had a window this whole time.

On that point - how is TWOK not affected by the Enterprise having a bridge window in DSC? Surely Kirk would have flagged the refit removal of the window as a design flaw and recommended the excelsior have a window and all following ships? DSC is in the same universe as TWOK after all. In all seriousness can anyone explain this?

showed that the TOS constitution class was more advanced
It was even mentioned in dialogue too!

If the writers on STD are smart enough to think of something like that
Let’s hope the new head writers will be able to give us something more sophisticated in s2...
 
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