What's the deal with Saavik?

[TrickyDickie]

I don't recall it mentioned onscreen, but didn't the novelization of TWOK have it that Saavik was half Vulcan and half Romulan? And subsequent novels picked that up?

That could have been worked into TUC, if they had kept Saavik.

Kim right from the beginning, in TWOK, would have been the best scenario, in my opinion....with second favorite being Linda Hamilton and her twin sister Leslie. One could have been raised on Vulcan and the other on Romulus.

 

[2takesfrakes]

This never made it into the movie, but mention of Saavik being Romulan was filmed for TWoK:

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[TrickyDickie]

This never made it into the movie, but mention of Saavik being Romulan was filmed for TWoK:

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Thanks for posting that!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

This never made it into the movie, but mention of Saavik being Romulan was filmed for TWoK:

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I wish the half-Romulan explanation had made it into the final film, so it could be canonical. I'm glad that a Saavik/David romance never became a thing, though. Too contrived for my tastes.

 

[Kor]

Human errors, haste, inattention, and hearing things wrong, like what happened at Ellis Island....where there were spelling errors, letters omitted that caused shortening of names, and where a family might get marked down as having the same last name as the family ahead of them in line, etc.

The names were originally Kamaltz and Malkris.

"Malkris" sounds like some kind of packaged snack product.

Kor

 

[Nerys Myk]

Human errors, haste, inattention, and hearing things wrong, like what happened at Ellis Island....where there were spelling errors, letters omitted that caused shortening of names, and where a family might get marked down as having the same last name as the family ahead of them in line, etc.

The names were originally Kamaltz and Malkris.

Which humans? IIRC, the names are first spoken by Klingons.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Which humans? IIRC, the names are first spoken by Klingons.

I can explain my way out of that one....really, I can.

Ummm....I meant 'Human' errors in a figurative sense. Klingons can make the same kind of mistakes.

OR....and this is very important, now....it could even have been deliberate. Immigration officials having disdain for immigrants and deliberately changing things, out of malice. And families then saying "Oh, you're going to try to dishonor us by doing that? Well, we'll turn it around and deliberately keep the names as a matter of honor itself and if you try to further dishonor us, we will knock your socks off!"

Do Klingons wear socks?

@Kor :

Malkrisps. The Klingon snack crackers that are so hard that they will break puny human teeth.

These are my explanations and I am sticking to them.

 

[diankra]

IIRC McIntyre's books explain that the single earring is an assertion of Saavik's Romulan heritage that would give her the right to a pursue a grievance against her father if she ever met him.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I can explain my way out of that one....really, I can.

Ummm....I meant 'Human' errors in a figurative sense. Klingons can make the same kind of mistakes.

VALKRIS: I have obtained the Federation data. Ready to transmit.
KRUGE (OC): Well done, Valkris, ...well done.
VALKRIS: That's "Malkris"!
KRUGE: Unfortunate... Fire!

Val...er, Malkris' ship is destroyed.

 

[Kor]

And Valeris had only one earring because she looked up to Saavik as a hero and role model. Or something.

Kor

 

[2takesfrakes]

I wish the half-Romulan explanation had made it into the final film, so it could be canonical. I'm glad that a Saavik/David romance never became a thing, though. Too contrived for my tastes.

I would've liked to see David & Saavik hit it off for any number of reasons, actually. For one, it's good for his image, being seen with such a smokin' hotty. She would've brought out the Man in him, and made him less of a momma's boy, which Carol kind of inflicted on the poor bastard. For another, his eventual death would've had more of an impact, I feel, had it been reported to Kirk by his girlfriend, rather than associate. Also, when she berates David in her own way, for having "changed the rules" so that the Genesis project could be a success. And if Saavik were to be left on Vulcan to carry anyone's child, I'd rather it be David's than Spock's. The idea of Spock and Saavik marrying never did appeal to me as a fan of both characters. And had David & Saavik gotten together, it may not have been necessary to kill him off, anyway. He and Saavik could just go raise their family and never be heard from again, without threateing the old guard at TOS. I mean, the list goes on and on for why these two should hook up. The only downside is the sure knowledge that it would be Saavik -- and not David -- who wore the pants in their relationship. Some wouldn't mind that, but I couldn't count myself amongst them. Just the same, there was much she could teach him that, unfortunately, he still hadn't learned ...

 

[TrickyDickie]

The only downside is the sure knowledge that it would be Saavik -- and not David -- who wore the pants in their relationship.

I'm not sure that's a fair judgment of him. I don't think we really saw enough character development to be able to say for certain.

They may have been equals and well balanced. If she tended to be more volatile, due to the Romulan side of her heritage, he could have been a good counterpoint to that. It wouldn't make him weak or mean that she was 'wearing the pants'.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Oh, that you would be right in this case, sir! As it is, though ... we can never know >: (

 

[Pauln6]

I think a more developed relationship between them over a longer period would have been better. David and Saavik in STIV and STV could have allowed some interesting character development. Killing him in STV would have led nicely into STVI but in those days sequels were not really planned like Marvel movies.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Oh, that you would be right in this case, sir! As it is, though ... we can never know >: (

Regrettably so....

I think a more developed relationship between them over a longer period would have been better. David and Saavik in STIV and STV could have allowed some interesting character development. Killing him in STV would have led nicely into STVI but in those days sequels were not really planned like Marvel movies.

Might have been even better to keep him for VI. That could have opened up a lot of possibilities.

Yeah, even movies 2-3-4 didn't have a solid story arc developed right from the get-go. To borrow from 'Terminator', they were making up history as they went along.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

IIRC McIntyre's books explain that the single earring is an assertion of Saavik's Romulan heritage that would give her the right to a pursue a grievance against her father if she ever met him.

That phrasing makes it sound like she's going to take him to The People's Court.

I would've liked to see David & Saavik hit it off for any number of reasons, actually.

I think if they were going to do it, it would've been better to do it a few films down the line, after they'd both gotten some more character development under their belts. Then they could have better gauged how the characters could've worked together and complemented each other.

Remember, TOS didn't really plan out the Kirk-Spock-McCoy troika. It just sort of happened after they saw the chemistry that the actors had and how they played scenes together. Then they started writing to it. We were just getting to know both Saavik and David at the end of TWOK, so I think it was probably a little too soon for the longing looks between them.

The idea of Spock and Saavik marrying never did appeal to me as a fan of both characters.

Me neither.

I don't think we really saw enough character development to be able to say for certain.

Exactly, agreed. One of my biggest criticisms of the TOS films is that they gave us three cool new characters with loads of potential in TWOK (Carol, David, and Saavik), and then didn't do much with any of them. Carol never came back, David was killed off in the next film, and Saavik was quickly written out in the film after that. I know that they had to try and service all seven of the original characters in the movies, and additional characters would've only made that harder, but still, it's a shame.

I think a more developed relationship between them over a longer period would have been better.

Yeah, exactly. We needed to know more about who Saavik and David were as individuals before they jammed them together as a couple. There needed to be a better reason to do it besides wanting to hook up Kirk's son and Spock's protegee.

 

[Pauln6]

That phrasing makes it sound like she's going to take him to The People's Court.

I think if they were going to do it, it would've been better to do it a few films down the line, after they'd both gotten some more character development under their belts. Then they could have better gauged how the characters could've worked together and complemented each other.

Remember, TOS didn't really plan out the Kirk-Spock-McCoy troika. It just sort of happened after they saw the chemistry that the actors had and how they played scenes together. Then they started writing to it. We were just getting to know both Saavik and David at the end of TWOK, so I think it was probably a little too soon for the longing looks between them.

Me neither.

Exactly, agreed. One of my biggest criticisms of the TOS films is that they gave us three cool new characters with loads of potential in TWOK (Carol, David, and Saavik), and then didn't do much with any of them. Carol never came back, David was killed off in the next film, and Saavik was quickly written out in the film after that. I know that they had to try and service all seven of the original characters in the movies, and additional characters would've only made that harder, but still, it's a shame.

Yeah, exactly. We needed to know more about who Saavik and David were as individuals before they jammed them together as a couple. There needed to be a better reason to do it besides wanting to hook up Kirk's son and Spock's protegee.

For all their flaws, the reboot movies do try to give each of the supporting cast their chance to shine. They could have done a bit better the in the TOS movies if they had planned to write specifically to showcase the characters and acknowledged more often that these guys are very senior officers. It is strange that there was no thought to include Saavik in STV.

 

[Tosk]

And Valeris had only one earring...

Which I also never noticed. Maybe I'm not as observant as I thought I was.

Valeris wears the right earring and no left one, (opposite of Saavik) and I guess that removes any explanation than involves being part Romulan.

 

[Kor]

If David and Saavik had a long-term relationship, family, etc., it would have been all the more devastating when she turned traitor in TUC.

Kor

 

[Mysterion]

I tend to go with Saavik being a full-Vulcan. Mcintyre's novel is all well and good, but there is nothing in the movie itself that supports Saavik being half-Romulan. It is a really unnecessary gilding of an already interesting character. "But, Mysterion" you say, "that explains why she is so emotional!". Not necessarily - she is just young and a bit undisciplined. Remember Spock when we first saw him in The Cage and how loud (and emotional) he was? It's got nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with the character growing up and learning to be an adult emotionally repressed Vulcan.