When Trek insults our intelligence
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
Well said.
Everyone can have their own head canon (I still like to think Picard is Wesley's real dad!). But wanting it to be so, doesn't make it so.
T'Pol was the first Vulcan in Starfleet. Period. That's a fact (well, as much as anything can be a "fact" in a TV universe).
At least, until someone retcons it.
It's my Head Canon. I can believe whatever I want!
^ Of course there are a lot of different kinds of relationships, even today. And by Trek's time, even newer ones would exist, that may seem incomprehensible to us. But just because new kinds of relationships are invented doesn't mean the old ones go away.
"Love instructors", though...unless that's a reference to sex therapists (which is a legitimate profession), now THAT's an insult to our intelligence.
Although I suppose a love instructor could be something like a dating coach, matchmaker, marriage broker, things like that. Maybe "James" was just the guy who set up George and Winona on their first date?
I've always been somewhat enamoured of the theory. I agree, who are we to judge 24th century sexual politics by 20th/21st century standards?
Alternately, whose to say Jack and Beverly didn't have some kind of 'break', during which she briefly hand a fling with Picard, only to reconcile with Jack shortly enough after for the timing of the parentage to be questionable? Beverly frequently tells the captain throughout the series "There's something I need to tell you..." that she never gets around to, even in the movies... although one wonders why he wouldn't have learned it when their minds were attached in that season 7 episode. Maybe he did and we just weren't privy to their discussion about it? 
I'm so sorry for you.
If you want to restrict it to TOS then there's nothing to indicate Spock was first and the existence of an all Vulcan crew on Intrepid strongly suggests otherwise.
I'm not suggesting that the fan belief is (or should be) canon. It's just a long standing assumption that fans have generally held despite any real information about it. Not unlike Uhura's first name being Nyota, which (I think) was a suggestion from Nichelle Nichols that was never mentioned onscreen before the 2009 movie. All I'm saying is that there is a way of interpreting and reconciling that fan belief with the information on screen about Spock's place in Starfleet history. Whether anybody wants to follow that interpretation is entirely up to them.
If you read a little way upthread, you'll see that an explanation was provided that stays within the boundaries I asked for, and that I accepted.
It was someone else who suggested "Nyota" to Nichelle Nichols, and after she learned what its English translation is, she liked it. Eventually it found its way into a movie, much like "Hikaru" did for Sulu.
Well, no. Much like a show representing the creators political leanings, it will also represent the culture they are from.
I don't need foreign shows to espouse an American view. I understand they are made from the experiences of the creators from that culture. For me, it ruins watching something from a different culture if they aren't producing it as a representation of that culture's values and experiences.
Yeah, true. I was thinking in universe knowing what we already know. But yeah, Taylor (or Brent in the beginning of Beneath the Planet of the Apes) would not have known that.
Yeah it's a plot hole. It was one of those suspension of disbelief things or the whole movie (esp. the shock of hearing Apes speak and the shocking ending) would have been ruined. And they needed Taylor to be able to communicate with the Apes.
If they had Taylor start questioning how they know English, it would have tipped off the ending a lot earlier than they wanted. They wanted that shocking reveal and didn't want to give the audience any clues what was going on.
However a Chinese version of Star Trek where humans in the future get their shit together to form a one world state, and branch out to explore the rest of the galaxy would not be impressive if every single human crew member was of Han descent, unless the background to the story was only China survived WW3.
'Space the final frontier, because we've blown planet Earth to kingdom come'
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It would be interesting because it would be reflective of their culture and how they see the world. Just like reading sci-fi written by the Strugatsky brothers is interesting because it gives insights into the world they inhabited (60's and 70's Soviet Union). I would definitely recommend The Doomed City.
I do not mind learning about another cultural worldview of the future, just don't pretend to be part of an organisation representing all of humanity while doing it ala Star Trek style.
Star Trek will always be reflective of American views on the world. It is created by mostly American writers. Just like Doctor Who has a decidedly British view of the world. Or the original House of Cards.
Somehow, I tend to think about Picard and Wesley like Woodrow Call and Newt Dobbs in Larry McMurtry's 'Lonesome Dove' stories. Call can't work up the courage to acknowledge Newt as his son, because Newt's mother was a prostitute. Weakness, can't have that. But he still defends the hell out of him, when anyone tries to do him harm. Not all that different with Picard. Easy to imagine him and Bev having a moment of 'weakness' and Wes being the result.
I can imagine someone seriously trying to harm Wes, and Jean-Luc whipping the shit out of them. Then, after he calms down a bit, he looks around and says "I do not like rude behavior....I will not tolerate it."
I can imagine someone seriously trying to harm Wes, and Jean-Luc whipping the shit out of them. Then, after he calms down a bit, he looks around and says "I do not like rude behavior....I will not tolerate it."
True, however House of Cards is about the British government, not about global world politics. Star Trek is about humanity's exploration of the stars, not the USA's exploration of the galaxy. The writers were creative enough to invent alien cultures in the franchise, they can at least incorporate some real life Earth cultures. They made the attempt by having main bridge crew from Africa, Scotland, France and Russia although there was very little African or Russian about Uhura, La Forge (I did not even know Geordi was meant to be Somalian) and Chekov. The novels do/did a better job.
Humanity is the USA in Star Trek. Always has been.
Which insults the rest of humanity and explains that terrible TOS Omega Glory episode
Well, no. It is an American show made for primarily American audiences. Should I be offended that a time lord is always British?
But in a way it is. Roddenberry's reflection of the future, and of the Federation, reflects the United States values generally. The Federation has often been compared to the United States, the Klingons to Russia and the Romulans to China (or even North Korea in some respects). Writers and show creators often mirror something in real life.
Now I think people need to be careful because we're speaking from a philosophical standpoint, not a political one. The Federation is a representative democracy like the United States--the office of President being similar to our office, the Council being akin to Congress and so forth. It has governors that administrate colonies and other worlds like our states. And each world is permitted to run things as they see fit as long as they uphold the laws of the Federation.
I think Rodenberry, and future writiers tried to do was take the best the United States had to offer and mold that into the Federation. We learned in Deep Space Nine that it wasn't always perfect, after all, we're not perfect. But the Federation always tried to move in a positive direction.
Are the Time Lords representing all of humanity or are they fictional aliens?
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Or sometimes from a little ways north. Every planet has a “north”, you know.
