When was the last time you watched the CW? That description doesn't fit at all.Hi there.
On topic: Kurtzman should be relegated to that 'CW' channel, teen/angsty stuff that's completely vapid and void of any real content.
Alex Kurtzman Gets New Deal With CBS, Will Expand 'Star Trek' TV
- Thread starter Lawrence B
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... I can get behind that
Well, TNG has dated noticably - especially the first season can easily be compared to TOS in it's presentation.
That being said, the whole TNG aesthetic has evolved through the time - from DS9 to Voyager through the TNG movies, the design language has continually evolved and kept up to date. Visually the late TNG era still looks up to date, in some cases even more finished than the JJverse visuals.
While I think the TNG movies have narratively aged stark as well - a modern scifi-blockbuster wouldn't have human-like aliens like the Ba'ku anymore, and a lot of the action scenes in Nemesis look very quaint to what we have learned to expect now - the set design and visual effects (space shots and starship design) is pretty much still top-of-the-line, and on the level of high-end productions nowadays.
Well, that is NEVER, EVER going to be the official party line
But for all intents and purposes, in it's canonicity and relationship to the other Trek series (where all the important things, like character development and major history points count, but the technical details and visuals... not always as much) - it's at least the lense through which I see DIS.
I'm going out on a limb here, and say I think the Picard show - should it ever actually materialize, will be a vastly different beast than DIS currently is. This one will be fully Kurtzman's show (or of the people he delegates it to). DIS was a weird mash up of things - originally an original vision by Fuller, partly a reboot, which was then completely overwritten following his firing and overtaken by some "executioneers" to get screen-ready as fast as possible without further delays. It wasn't Kurtzmans' show - he was off directing 'the Mummy'. It was... actually no one's show at the time. That of the some of the background producers at most...? Only superficially supervised by Harberts and Berg, which had to put something on screen out of the existing sets, props and cgi models. But surely wasn't their "vision". Just something cobbled up in their "style". (Which is IMO horrible, and I'm glad they're gone now)
For the Picard show, I will expect them to approach the whole premise completely different. They will have an original idea (is it "Picard back in action"? "A last goodby à la Logan?", "Picard leads the next next generation into action?") - we won't know that until much later, depends a lot on for how long Patrick Steward will actually commit, whether it will be a full fledged series with Picard only a lead-in, or an enclosed miniseries with Picard front and center. And all the other things - prime universe or not, visual aesthetics, canonicity - will be derived from that.
Seeing how much they already visually changed DIS into the more "traditional" Trek direction (including a pretty spot-on version of the "classic" TOS uniforms, and a for DIS very subtle update of the Connie for season 2), I think this Picard show will be a LOT closer to the TNG look than DIS was to the TOS look. That being said: Bridge windows, upscaled starships, and many more holographic visuals will still probably be a given. But hopefully more in the Okuda design language, and more traditional looking klingons or Borg or whatever they decide to use.
Overall though - and I can't believe I say this, loathing the Transformers franchise as I do and being as sceptical about the JJmovies as I am - I somewhat trust Kurtzman as a television producer. He's not an ideologue, he gets stuff done. Efficiently. His writing is reliably enjoyable, and so far all his shows are cast and produced extremely well. If he hires the right people to contribute story ideas, his shows can be all around successfull.
This would be the big one if it goes through.
Trek coming back is one thing.
Trek coming back with one of its iconic stars is something orders of magnitudes bigger.
I won’t lie, my inner ‘why the heck are all the fan films etc obsessed with TOS’ fan will dance a little.
Maybe a samba on the way out of the bathroom.
I'm SO crossing my fingers for it to go through!
To the second part: Well, TOS is the original OG. The big one. The best one. The one everyone not only knows about, but as somewhat familiar with (even only through popcultural osmosis, and not with the actual one). Like the Star Wars OT, it's the one everyone will forever be obsessed with.
But yeah - Trek has moved on, and developed since then. It's a shame not to make use of that. And they will never be able to recreate TOS anyway. IMO it's not a bad idea to try to get closer to the tone of TOS - more colors, more human characters, funky designs, crazy ideas, weird plots - but you shouldn't disregard what came later. TNG (and it's spin-offs) gave SO MUCH to the franchise - trying to rip that out again feels like an amputation. NuTrek should not try to make it an either/or situation. They should...combine the best of both worlds.
(also: make further additions to the lore and continue to evolve going forward)
I'm SO crossing my fingers for it to go through!
To the second part: Well, TOS is the original OG. The big one. The best one. The one everyone not only knows about, but as somewhat familiar with (even only through popcultural osmosis, and not with the actual one). Like the Star Wars OT, it's the one everyone will forever be obsessed with.
But yeah - Trek has moved on, and developed since then. It's a shame not to make use of that. And they will never be able to recreate TOS anyway. IMO it's not a bad idea to try to get closer to the tone of TOS - more colors, more human characters, funky designs, crazy ideas, weird plots - but you shouldn't disregard what came later. TNG (and it's spin-offs) gave SO MUCH to the franchise - trying to rip that out again feels like an amputation. NuTrek should not try to make it an either/or situation. They should...combine the best of both worlds.
(also: make further additions to the lore and continue to evolve going forward)
In its day, TNG eclipsed TOS. It’s largely nostalgia that keeps the TOS boat afloat...particularly as it’s seen as ‘retro’. Otherwise, the movie era would get more love. (Probably helps that it’s cheap to copy it’s look, and as you say, was forever in repeat mode at a low low price...pop culture osmosis in other words.) I have a feeling that since TNGs audience is now moving into their forties, nostalgia is gonna be a market for it.
The Undiscovered Country in many ways was the ultimate way to wrap up TOS, bringing the Klingon Cold War to an end. Klingons and other characters from previous Trek movies came back.
For TNG, the Cold War was with the Romulans, and Nemesis was an awful conclusion.
So in my wildest dreams, the Picard mini-series would feature a final conclusion to that thread, like say a peace deal with Romulus, with Denise Crosby returning as Sela, to wrap up her arc.
But I would also love to see a really well considered archaeological mystery spanning the galaxy.
Why not both?
The words isn't dynamic. It's gratuitous FX shots for the sake of FX, a sin Trek has largely avoided outside of TMP.
Because it's not?
No. Because...marketing.
would anyone have a problem with Jane Kirk really? I actually wouldn’t
So in said continuity how does she handle the David Marcus issue? Kirk is an absentee father in an oops pregnancy (as anachronistic as that may be in a future where birth control should damn well be perfect) and unless he temporarily drops out of starfleet and then chucks David off to Carol so she can go back off to hopping galaxies(TM) then it doesn't work.
Point being that Kirk as a character is absolutely written male (almost chauvanistically so) and you can't just swap genders casually.
In a full reboot, why would Jane Kirk need a son?
No, not even close. The original's popularity and status across the world in syndication was a phenomenon. TNG never reached that level of relevance and status on a global scale, and it never will. That's frigging silly talk.
You might like TNG more, and that's perfectly fine, but come off this Ill-conceived position that somehow TNG "eclipsed" TOS. That simply isn't true.
Man, the Berman-era fans get insecure as hell on this shit.
I love all Star Trek, but I'm never ina million years going to claim that TNG was bigger than TOS. TOS's impact is literally ingrained in the popular culture and in our psyche. People know TNG as a good 80s sci-fi show with Patrick Stewart and the guy painted yellow.
Well, it’s the 23rd century - so, science.
The writers could find a way around that. Artificial insemenation or using an alien that has a third gender like those people in Enterprise. I don’t see Kirk having a son as an inherently male trait.
I’d debate that. I don’t think Kirk needs to be male when you boil the character down. The fact that he was male in TOS was just a product of the time. Now, if we can re-imagine Harry Mudd as violent psychopath by looking at his character through modern lens then surely we can do the same thing with Captain Kirk. Thus, Jane Kirk would be the same Captain Kirk we saw in TOS. All you have to do is ignore the change.
Ultimately I suppose we have to ask: does it really matter whether Kirk is male or female (or, indeed, neither) if the *character* has the traits we’ve all come to admire over the years.
In this example it wouldn’t be a full reboot. It would be the same continuity as TOS but with DSC aesthetics and updated visuals but with a female Kirk - the same Kirk as in TOS.
i just can't picture a full on TNG Reunion - maybe a standalone mini-series to launch a reboot or something, or an anniversary special, but otherwise - why? The fans aren't demanding it, the actors are 30 years older, what do we gain? None of the actors were truly iconic in their roles - everyone knows Captain Kirk but Captain Picard just doesn't have the same mass-market.
Even a full scale TNG reboot would be significantly different although bringing back the Okudagram aesthetic would be nice.
Even a full scale TNG reboot would be significantly different although bringing back the Okudagram aesthetic would be nice.
Agreed. Hopefully enough for some of it to be carried forward into the new era, as you suggest.
True. And I agree about INS too - that always seemed to be more like a big screen version of the show rather than a movie (I must be the first person to make that point...) but it’s overall tone is more akin to TNG than anything else.
Sadly no - but I love that interpretationWell, that is NEVER, EVER going to be the official party line
I may adopt it myself. Let’s hope so. But —>
I think you’re right here. It would be naive to expect that they wouldn’t change things at all - I just hope that it’s not as drastic as the changes made in DSC. Time will tell I suppose!
I think there's more to TOS's appeal than whatever current nostalgia happens to be. Today, it's the '80s that are the big retro/nostaglia decade not the '60s. Even the '70s have largely dropped off. '90s nostalgia is slowly creeping in, but it's still mainly the '80s.
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