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Kathleen Kennedy Damaging Star Wars....?

great so long as the characters are charismatic

Which is the problem. Rey did not rise above Mary Sue in Last Jedi. Finn was used for little more than comedy relief. Poe finds himself constantly emasculated and Rose Tico is a female fanboi insert and little else. To make matters worse, the murderous Kylo's now a guilty pleasure sex symbol because he had one shirtless scene and the various slash-fic skype sessions with Rey.

With Harrison Ford gone, Luke not acting like Luke, and the various smoke and mirrors employed to hide Carrie Fisher's failing health, there's little left to hold up the franchise.

And the cherry on top is to say the above just opens myself and anyone else to accusations of racism and sexism.

Some of us actually enjoy movies as movies and don't just praise them based on their politics and The Last Jedi had issues. On first viewing the shock value seemed bold but over time it just feels...hollow.
 
I’m sure you'll claim it as a victory if she steps down in a year or 10 years from now. Can’t ever let a woman control anything, huh?

How about a meritocracy?

Zack Snyder's position in the DCEU is not that solid these days either but I don't see a lot of people rallying to his defense on the basis of his gender. In fact I'd say just as many white male nerds who are out for Kathleen Kennedy's heads are equally looking forward to a Zack-Snyder-free DCEU.

Heck, how about this for white males being willing to throw other white males under the bus:

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The fact of the matter is that women in power can turn out to be just as incompetent as anyone else. Just look at Elizabeth Holmes or Marissa Mayer.
 
What exactly is that comment supposed to accomplish?

I mean, I presume you don't want to come across as a caricature, right?

If it’s a ‘caricature’ to point out that fragile masculinity is pretty much solely within the purview of men, then quiet frankly? I don’t give much of a fuck.

‘Oh no, Poe was...wrong about something! And even admitted to it! Someone check his testicles. His precious, precious testicles!’
 
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Which is the problem. Rey did not rise above Mary Sue in Last Jedi. Finn was used for little more than comedy relief. Poe finds himself constantly emasculated and Rose Tico is a female fanboi insert and little else. To make matters worse, the murderous Kylo's now a guilty pleasure sex symbol because he had one shirtless scene and the various slash-fic skype sessions with Rey.

With Harrison Ford gone, Luke not acting like Luke, and the various smoke and mirrors employed to hide Carrie Fisher's failing health, there's little left to hold up the franchise.

And the cherry on top is to say the above just opens myself and anyone else to accusations of racism and sexism.

Some of us actually enjoy movies as movies and don't just praise them based on their politics and The Last Jedi had issues. On first viewing the shock value seemed bold but over time it just feels...hollow.
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How about a meritocracy?

Zack Snyder's position in the DCEU is not that solid these days either but I don't see a lot of people rallying to his defense on the basis of his gender. In fact I'd say just as many white male nerds who are out for Kathleen Kennedy's heads are equally looking forward to a Zack-Snyder-free DCEU.

Heck, how about this for white males being willing to throw other white males under the bus:

MV5BNGE4NzhkYzMtZTM5My00MTNhLTk5OTktNTI2ZmVkNGYzMzg4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQxNzMzNDI@._V1_UX182_CR0,0,182,268_AL_.jpg


The fact of the matter is that women in power can turn out to be just as incompetent as anyone else. Just look at Elizabeth Holmes or Marissa Mayer.
I don't recall Snyder getting death threats.
 
Rey did not rise above Mary Sue in Last Jedi.
That's a matter of opinion I suppose, but Luke Skywalker was always at least as implausible as Rey is, and Luke was arguably even more implausible.

Poe finds himself constantly emasculated
That's factually incorrect. Poe wasn't emasculated, and nor did he find himself emasculated at any point. He was insubordinate and reckless, and he was punished for that by his superior officers. His X-wing was not an extension of his penis, for fuck's sake. Sucks to be anyone who looks at it that way.

Poe learned from his mistakes, and he helped save everyone at the end, critically by realizing that Luke was doing his own kind of pranking, to delay Kylo long enough for the remaining members of the Resistance to escape, not unlike how Poe had pranked Hux in the beginning, thus informing Poe of the exact move to make at that point, trusting in Luke and namely to seek escape by going deeper into the mine.

Finn was used for little more than comedy relief.
Finn was used for com[ic] relief, but it's factually incorrect that he was used for little more than comic relief. One of the climactic scenes involved his engaging in the sort of self-sacrificing heroic behavior that cost Rose her sister, that was all for naught, that incidentally was of the sort that Poe was chastised for, and that provided part of Rose's motivation for saving Finn from the same fate, which is actually what Leia had been trying to do for the whole attack team in the beginning. Whether and how to expend or preserve precious, dwindling resources in the face of annihilation is a major topic of the film, so, again, that's just factually incorrect, what you're saying about Finn.

Rose Tico is a female fanboi insert and little else.
Again, that's factually incorrect. What I said about Rose already applies here. She also played a critical role in bringing the whole team together, by preventing Finn from running away, however well-intentioned that might have been in his own mind, given that besides saving his own ass he also wanted to save Rey's.

To make matters worse, the murderous Kylo's now a guilty pleasure sex symbol because he had one shirtless scene and the various slash-fic skype sessions with Rey.
That's quite a misreading of the "Skype sessions." It's the sort of thing that sounds like it was written by Beavis or Butt-Head, who can never seem to stop laughing long enough to pay attention to anything after hearing the word "hard." It might help understand them better to remember that it was Snoke who was making the connection between the two in the hope of seducing Rey. In other words, it's a story point that it was born of evil. It didn't work.

With Harrison Ford gone
Yeah that sucks, but Han was never much of a character anyway, after he was thawed out of the carbonite. What a moving death scene though in TFA, wow! YMMV.

Luke not acting like Luke
Yeah I disagree there. I thought that Luke was very much in line with what to expect years later, especially given what happened with his new Academy in the meantime. It's patently more realistic than expecting him to be the same ol' guy, and TLJ establishes a multidimensional arc for his character. YMMV.

and the various smoke and mirrors employed to hide Carrie Fisher's failing health
Yeah, humans are mortal. Sucks to be human. We seem to be made to suffer; it's our lot in life.

there's little left to hold up the franchise.
Well, I couldn't disagree more. I came out of TLJ wanting to see more adventures of Rey, Finn, Rose, Chewie, R2, 3PO, and Poe too, vs Kylo and with possible appearances by the Force ghosts of Luke, Yoda, and maybe if we get lucky even Obi-Wan, Anakin, or Qui-Gon, though I don't actually need any of those three in this. [ed - Oh, snap! I forgot BB-8. I love him.]

I'm sold on Rey at this point, and on all of the new characters.

And the cherry on top is to say the above just opens myself and anyone else to accusations of racism and sexism.
I think it's quite clear that you don't understand what emasculation is and what doesn't qualify as it.

Some of us actually enjoy movies as movies and don't just praise them based on their politics and The Last Jedi had issues.
This is generally the sort of remark that says more about how the speaker looks at things than it does about how the sentence's subjects look at things.

But, I'll just speak for myself. This isn't about politics. My politics don't shape my principles and beliefs. It's the other way around. My principles and beliefs inform my politics, as well as my tastes in film. In contrast to my politics, my beliefs do not determine my tastes in film, though, and I'm capable of liking a film even if doesn't agree with my principles, and quite often especially when it doesn't.
 
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I don't recall Snyder getting death threats.


Also, looking at Kennedy’s record, it’s pretty obvious that she does have her job because of ‘merit.’ As much as one can, in the Hollywood system. Which isn’t really built for it at all.

From what I’ve heard of Snyder, he didn’t even lose his job over artistic or financial ‘merit.’ The final straw was just being instructed to change direction for Justice League, then promptly making it obvious that he wouldn’t be. So he went the way of the ‘employee who doesn’t listen to their damn boss.’

I didn’t rejoice in Snyder’s firing, btw. Even if I’m not a massive fan of the DCU, everything about that situation was a bit sad.
 
What universe do you live in? It certainly isn't this one. Do you honestly think that Hamill would face any consequence for defending his fellow actors from trolls? No one agrees with them. Kennedy isn't going anywhere. This is a delusion.
Which is the problem. Rey did not rise above Mary Sue in Last Jedi. Finn was used for little more than comedy relief. Poe finds himself constantly emasculated and Rose Tico is a female fanboi insert and little else. To make matters worse, the murderous Kylo's now a guilty pleasure sex symbol because he had one shirtless scene and the various slash-fic skype sessions with Rey.

With Harrison Ford gone, Luke not acting like Luke, and the various smoke and mirrors employed to hide Carrie Fisher's failing health, there's little left to hold up the franchise.

And the cherry on top is to say the above just opens myself and anyone else to accusations of racism and sexism.

Some of us actually enjoy movies as movies and don't just praise them based on their politics and The Last Jedi had issues. On first viewing the shock value seemed bold but over time it just feels...hollow.

I agree, and I was dissapointed that all the old characters from the first trilogy where so depressed and had to die, except for Leia who kept on fighting.
 
I don’t know why they said it was a fake. Why would Isin display it if so. I would have had it be one that Odin took from Thanos to stop his plans. That could explain why Thanos went to the dwarfs so they would make him another one. Also, Odin dying could be another reason Thanos starts his plan.
 
I didn’t rejoice in Snyder’s firing, btw. Even if I’m not a massive fan of the DCU, everything about that situation was a bit sad.
I thought he left on his own accord to deal with the suicide of his own daughter
 
There was apparently certain leaks that may have been slightly more reliable than the usual scuttlebutt.

But you know how these things are.
 
I don't recall Snyder getting death threats.

There were people gloating that his daughter died and he had to step off, it was pretty fucking abominable.

And that was basically just a culmination of years of normalizied shit flinging at him, not just by random people in comments but by bloggers and "news" outlets. Cheering the death of someone's child because you don't like their movies is a level of heinous still not yet reached by the SW fandom, though that's probably just through sheer luck of nobody actually dying.

And all this hate and bile was coming from people claiming they know and own what "True Superman" is...

From what I’ve heard of Snyder, he didn’t even lose his job over artistic or financial ‘merit.’ The final straw was just being instructed to change direction for Justice League, then promptly making it obvious that he wouldn’t be. So he went the way of the ‘employee who doesn’t listen to their damn boss.’

I doubt we'll ever know what actually happened, but from Snyder's past work he's always complied with studio demands, cutting down almost all his movies for theatrical release per studio instructions (all of his director's cuts being vastly superior movies), so I don't think "not listening" was the problem. If I had to guess, I'd say that in the wake of the tragedy he just didn't really feel like making a movie he didn't wanna make and still get shit thrown at him again, and the studio was more than happy to replace him.
 
That's a matter of opinion I suppose, but Luke Skywalker was always at least as implausible as Rey is, and Luke was arguably even more implausible.

Luke was quite plausible back when Star Wars was about myths, legends and larger than life heroes.
In a diatribe about the human condition and an allegory for modern problems; He's a fucking joke.
 
Luke was quite plausible back when Star Wars was about myths, legends and larger than life heroes.
In a diatribe about the human condition and an allegory for modern problems; He's a fucking joke.
There's nothing plausible about a rookie using the Force to hit an impossible shot. But we accept it, because we have a good time.

The people who reject Rey just don't enjoy seeing her up on the screen in the role of the hero.
 
But we accept it, because we have a good time.

At the end of the day, isn't that the point? This is entertainment. I love Star Wars. I love talking about Star Wars. I have Chewbacca and BB-8 bobbleheads looking at me right now at my desk at work. Yes, I enjoy talking about the stories behind it, but going into so much detail as to discuss how Luke can do something but Rey shouldn't be able to? Come on. Its about the enjoyment of it all! I mean, we're talking about a universe where a laser can act as a blade to a sword and just stop in mid-air and be powerful enough to cut through stuff without killing the person wielding the blade. (I'm sure there is an explanation in the EU as to how all of this works. I don't care. 41 years onscreen with no explanation. And most are okay to just accept it.) Who cares if Luke had a few hours of training and Rey just opened herself to the Force? The question is: Did you have fun? Any overexamination of this stuff just ruins it for me.
 
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It was an indication of where things were going.

No, it wasn't. It was a red herring. A fakeout. And you apparently bought it - hook, line and sinker. There was no way Stark wasn't going to be an Avenger. You keep getting successfully faked out, and there's a common denominator, and it's not the franchise not knowing where it's going.
 
I totally fell for it by. You can tell by the way I pointed out that Tony was obviously always going to be an Avenger.

And how I totally missed all the super-subtle Avengers foreshadowing, that is not at all irritating and partially responsible for why Iron Man 2 is my least favourite of the lot.

And how could I possibly have known? It’s not like I’ve ever read an Avengers comic. Or any Marvel comic. In fact, that whole ‘sequential art’ is just, so, like...confusing?

I certainly don’t have probably a thousand dollars worth of them piled up in cupboards. Definitely hadn’t loathed Tony as a character for years before the cinema audiences even became aware of him, and cheered when a post-revival Thor smashed his stupid fascist head in. Because only thing worse than teen Tony, was frigging inescable post-Civil War era Tony, I swear to fucking god...

So yeah. Totally fell for it. His reveal in Avengers just, like...clean knocked me out of my seat and everything.

Anyone else remember when Marvel made an entire short film partially devoted to fixing the little niggle of how Tony’s appearence in Incredible Hulk, no longer fit with the direction they’d taken with his character?

Irony being that the later change of mind to basically pretend that movie never happened, meant they probably could have spared the expense.
 
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With Harrison Ford gone, Luke not acting like Luke, and the various smoke and mirrors employed to hide Carrie Fisher's failing health, there's little left to hold up the franchise.

And the cherry on top is to say the above just opens myself and anyone else to accusations of racism and sexism.
I want to highlight the objective portion of your comments, as your subjective commentary is your opinion, and while I don't agree, I don't have any interest in arguing with you on that matter.

I will, however, comment on the objective portion of your post.
Due to Harrison's age, attitude towards the franchise, and the need to re-position the franchise for the future, having Geriatric Solo growling and slouching through another three pics was never going to be all that sustainable. Han Solo's time was in the past, and as shown by the poor box office performance of Solo and the few, if any voices demanding his presence in TLJ, the character itself is not integral to the success of the franchise.

Luke not acting like Luke is a subjective opinion, so I won't argue that.

"Smoke and mirrors" - that doesn't make any sense at all. She DIED. As in - totally gone. Leia thus will not be able to be in Episode IX. There is no reason that the new cast will somehow be completely unable to carry this franchise, there is no reason to say that Lucasfilm can't find a way to re-cast the role, there is no objective proof that audiences will abandon the FRANCHISE because a SINGLE character is portrayed at all or is portrayed in some way that offends someone's sensibilities.

The idea that the Star Wars FRANCHISE has been killed because of Kathleen Kennedy is beyond the pale. There is no objective proof, NOT ONE SINGLE SHRED, that unequivocally proves that outrageous idea, and the pile-ons from people who simply don't like TLJ and now are proclaiming the doom of Star Wars are patently ridiculous.
 
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