Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Roddenberr
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Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
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Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
I've never heard of FC being a dig at Roddenberry.
With that said, I think the Cochrane characterization in the movie was very realistic. I'm so sure that someone so historically revered like George Washington would look vastly different and much less heroic if we saw him in the day-to-day.
And, of course, FC's Cochrane was right all along: 'Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments.'
I've never heard of FC being a dig at Roddenberry.
With that said, I think the Cochrane characterization in the movie was very realistic. I'm so sure that someone so historically revered like George Washington would look vastly different and much less heroic if we saw him in the day-to-day.
And, of course, FC's Cochrane was right all along: 'Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgments.'
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
Because some people read far too much into nothing.
Because some people read far too much into nothing.
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
I hadn't heard it either...
I hadn't heard it either...
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
The only thing wrong about FCs Cochrane was that the character was the guy that played him was too tall. Cochran wasn't tall in the TOS episode. That's being real nit picky though.
I liked the FC version of how Cochrane would be. If we really knew about the greats at that time. You can dig out a lot of trash on our Presidents. FDR was an alcoholic and a jerk. The religious beliefs of our forefathers and of Lincoln would have kept them out of office today.
The only thing wrong about FCs Cochrane was that the character was the guy that played him was too tall. Cochran wasn't tall in the TOS episode. That's being real nit picky though.
I liked the FC version of how Cochrane would be. If we really knew about the greats at that time. You can dig out a lot of trash on our Presidents. FDR was an alcoholic and a jerk. The religious beliefs of our forefathers and of Lincoln would have kept them out of office today.
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
Now who could ever see in Gene Roddenberry a kind of shabby, besotted, womanizing, manipulative jerk who had a really great idea, gathered a small group together to carry it out, and parlayed that into something which became an exciting and surprising success, in the process creating a caste of people who would admire him as a visionary humanitarian with a design for making a grand new world? They're obviously nothing alike.
Yeah, I mean, Cochrane, as First Contact presented him, was a kind of shabby, besotted, womanizing, manipulative jerk who had a really great idea, gathered a small group together to carry it out, and parlayed that into something which became an exciting and surprising success, in the process creating a caste of people who would admire him as a visionary humanitarian with a design for making a grand new world.
Now who could ever see in Gene Roddenberry a kind of shabby, besotted, womanizing, manipulative jerk who had a really great idea, gathered a small group together to carry it out, and parlayed that into something which became an exciting and surprising success, in the process creating a caste of people who would admire him as a visionary humanitarian with a design for making a grand new world? They're obviously nothing alike.
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
Has anyone made the comaprison in such graphic terms?
Has anyone made the comaprison in such graphic terms?
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
I heard the comparison right in the theater. People sitting in front of me, after a few scenes with Cochrane started laughing about the fact the writers were taking a shot at Gene. Have to say, personally, I think they did too.
Maybe it was by design, or it was just one of those things that was written one way and took on a life on its own, but it's there-- so long as you don't by into the "Gene was a infallible messiah of the the future" horse crap.
Rather on purpose or not, the message is clear: The people we think of a heroes and role-models are just like the rest of us, and sometimes the legend is more appealing than the reality.
I heard the comparison right in the theater. People sitting in front of me, after a few scenes with Cochrane started laughing about the fact the writers were taking a shot at Gene. Have to say, personally, I think they did too.
Maybe it was by design, or it was just one of those things that was written one way and took on a life on its own, but it's there-- so long as you don't by into the "Gene was a infallible messiah of the the future" horse crap.
Rather on purpose or not, the message is clear: The people we think of a heroes and role-models are just like the rest of us, and sometimes the legend is more appealing than the reality.
Yeah, I don't think it was so much a dig as a kind of inside joke...there's a lot of admiration in it.
Bear in mind that Cochrane as we saw him in "Metamorphosis" was an important historical figure who'd made a crucial discovery - but Kirk and Spock and those folks held him in no particular personal reverence.
The crew of the 1701-D start right off calling Cochrane a "visionary" (a popular late characterization of you-know-who) and treat him with various degrees of adulation (up to and including Barclay's fair imitation of a ga-ga fanboy). The point of the joke, such as it might have been, was the dissonance of discovering that the man who created their world was a lecher, a heavy drinker and as motivated by a drive for personal status and success as anyone else from the bad old days.
It's worth noting that discovering their hero had the proverbial feet of clay didn't seem to diminish their admiration for him and what he achieved - if nothing else, the TNG folks were pretty well mature and sophisticated folks.
Bear in mind that Cochrane as we saw him in "Metamorphosis" was an important historical figure who'd made a crucial discovery - but Kirk and Spock and those folks held him in no particular personal reverence.
The crew of the 1701-D start right off calling Cochrane a "visionary" (a popular late characterization of you-know-who) and treat him with various degrees of adulation (up to and including Barclay's fair imitation of a ga-ga fanboy). The point of the joke, such as it might have been, was the dissonance of discovering that the man who created their world was a lecher, a heavy drinker and as motivated by a drive for personal status and success as anyone else from the bad old days.
It's worth noting that discovering their hero had the proverbial feet of clay didn't seem to diminish their admiration for him and what he achieved - if nothing else, the TNG folks were pretty well mature and sophisticated folks.
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
You know, when you think about it, Cochrane didn't say that. Riker did. He must have read the quote in a history book, remembered it, told Cochrane in the past, who then remembered it, who then said it at some ceremony and some historian or journalist transcribed it, which ended up in history books. One which Riker may have read and remembered and....well, you know.
You know, when you think about it, Cochrane didn't say that. Riker did. He must have read the quote in a history book, remembered it, told Cochrane in the past, who then remembered it, who then said it at some ceremony and some historian or journalist transcribed it, which ended up in history books. One which Riker may have read and remembered and....well, you know.
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
Ah, temporal paradoxes.
But as you point out, Riker was repeating what he read in a history book, and Cochrane was repeating what he heard Riker say... they both copied each other but neither came up with the phrase first, Riker's claim is about the same as Cochrane's, which may be nothing at all...
Ah, temporal paradoxes.
Re: Why do people say that FC's Cochrane was a dig at Rodden
Temporal paradoxes can be fun... and confusing.
Temporal paradoxes can be fun... and confusing.
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