Spoilers The Flash - Season 4
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
Oh, that's right. One more to add to the list of repeated Arrowverse names, including Ray and Dinah, and Jefferson if they ever fold in Black Lightning. (And Barry if you count young Obama.)
And to think, there's this guy on another board today freaking out about the fact that Supergirl hasn't "explained" why Mon-El's name is so similar to Kara's family name. As if that had never happened before.
When that scene unfolded, I wondered if he was actually remotely controlling the chair.
Some more thoughts--
I'm glad Devoe is done. I feel that the storyline dragged on for two long. I think Flash may be better served with 2 arcs of 11 episodes, than one arc, with one villain, for an entire season.
That said, the one line about Devoe getting all those powers so he could beat anyone the Flash could get for help was ridiculous. Kara should be able to take out all 12 of Devoes bus metas separately.
Kryptonians are ridiculously powerful, and Kara is less likely to hold back than Superman.
Another thing they didn't think of. Devoe's satellites may be able to affect the entire planet, but not the entire multiverse, so why wouldn't the good guys flee to another Earth?
Does the extra speedster HAVE to be Nora? Why couldn't it be Bart? Or Bart's dad (who could also have a different name at this point).
I agree that Marlize did not pay for her crimes. They should have had her go to jail, with the fact that she helped save the world be taken into account, but she was as others pointed out, an accomplice to at least a 11 murders.
She should be in jail for life.
Well, the satellite was nowhere near Star Labs to our knowledge, and clearly Iris and Barry had to survive, unless Iris is pregnant during the episode.
If Nora prevented her own birth, then she would be a time remnant. So she could still exist.
That would essentially turn him into Brainiac. I'm actually hopeful he's gone for good--I have a bit of Devoe fatigue.
I not only like this idea, I think it would be great if this is irreversible. That she can only exist now in the present, and will never be born. If you think about it, if you travel back in time and reveal yourself to your parents, before you are conceived, that puts a lot of pressure on them. How do they make sure YOU are the child conceived. Will they have sex at the exact same time as the original timeline? Heck, they could have sex a few minutes before or after and things could change.
I'm glad Devoe is done. I feel that the storyline dragged on for two long. I think Flash may be better served with 2 arcs of 11 episodes, than one arc, with one villain, for an entire season.
That said, the one line about Devoe getting all those powers so he could beat anyone the Flash could get for help was ridiculous. Kara should be able to take out all 12 of Devoes bus metas separately.
Kryptonians are ridiculously powerful, and Kara is less likely to hold back than Superman.
Another thing they didn't think of. Devoe's satellites may be able to affect the entire planet, but not the entire multiverse, so why wouldn't the good guys flee to another Earth?
Does the extra speedster HAVE to be Nora? Why couldn't it be Bart? Or Bart's dad (who could also have a different name at this point).
I agree that Marlize did not pay for her crimes. They should have had her go to jail, with the fact that she helped save the world be taken into account, but she was as others pointed out, an accomplice to at least a 11 murders.
She should be in jail for life.
Well, the satellite was nowhere near Star Labs to our knowledge, and clearly Iris and Barry had to survive, unless Iris is pregnant during the episode.
If Nora prevented her own birth, then she would be a time remnant. So she could still exist.
That would essentially turn him into Brainiac. I'm actually hopeful he's gone for good--I have a bit of Devoe fatigue.
I not only like this idea, I think it would be great if this is irreversible. That she can only exist now in the present, and will never be born. If you think about it, if you travel back in time and reveal yourself to your parents, before you are conceived, that puts a lot of pressure on them. How do they make sure YOU are the child conceived. Will they have sex at the exact same time as the original timeline? Heck, they could have sex a few minutes before or after and things could change.
I disagree. Yes, someone like Kara could defeat any one of the bus metas separately but when you combine them together, it makes for a very potent combo. We are talking about a single individual with all of the following powers at the same time:
1) Dimensional manipulation.
2) DNA manipulation.
3) Effigy manipulation.
4) Elasticity.
5) Energy absorption.
6) Gravity manipulation.
7) Jinxing.
8) Psychoactive fluids.
9) Size alteration.
10) Sound manipulation.
11) Technopathy.
12) Telepathy.
Talk about an overpowered villain! Basically, Kara can't touch him, can't punch him, can't shoot lasers at him, and can't rush him. He is invulnerable to anything she could do. And he can read her mind to know what she is planning, steal her powers, push her away with a sonic scream, or incapacitate her by making her so heavy she is crushed to the ground. The fact is that the Flash, with his powers, with the help of Cisco and Ralph, could not do it. Brute force was never going to work against the Thinker.
Sheer power is not good enough. The Flash tried to use brute force against The Thinker and failed miserably. Again, when the Thinker can make Kara trip over her own cape because of bad luck, press her down against the ground under her own weight, or open portals to deflect her laser eyes, or morph his body to absorb her punches, I am not sure what Kara could do that would work any differently than what Barry tried.
And what would the point of that be? It's this Earth that Team Flash has to protect. Going to another Earth would just be running away and accepting defeat.
Ab-Nora-MailityThat's Normageddon.
Except for #4, substitute full-on shapeshifting and near-indestructibility. Ralph has a really impressive power set, arguably the most crucial single one to DeVoe's plan, because it was only Ralph's body that had the cellular plasticity to be unharmed by the dark matter that was degrading DeVoe's health in the other bodies he stole. Plus there's the bonus that he could regain his original appearance. That's why he saved Ralph for last, other than Fallout, of course.
Yeah. It makes me wonder why Barry even suggested asking Oliver for help (especially since he's in prison at the moment).
Then again... It was never established how DeVoe's powers would respond to magic. Maybe Amaya, Zari, or Constantine could've done something against him.
Exactly. They're superheroes. Their job is to protect the world, not just save themselves. Running away to save yourself is the exact opposite of being a hero.
Magic might have fared a bit better but only because you can kinda bend the rules with it since magic, by definition, is outside the realm of science or the natural. Although, I think The Thinker would still be able to defend himself from a lot of the attacks from it. He could still absorb any physical attacks and he could read your mind to know what magic attack you are planning to do in advance.
The realm of known science. If magic exists, then it's part of the universe, and that means science can expand to encompass it. I hate it when people assume science is some fixed, inflexible body of knowledge; that's the exact opposite of how it works. Science is about constantly asking questions and finding new answers and expanding what we know. A century and a half ago, quantum physics was beyond the realm of known science and would've seemed like impossible magic. Today, it's the foundation of modern physics and has practical applications in technology, including several of the bits of technology allowing us to have this conversation. Anything that exists is part of nature and can eventually fall within the realm of science. That's literally what science is for.
Indeed, we've seen this on Legends already, with Ray devising his nanotech weapon that could mimic magical effects and kill a demonically possessed being like Nora. Magic is real in the Arrowverse, therefore it can be understood and harnessed. But that doesn't mean DeVoe would have had the ability to counteract it with the powers he had, since he limited himself to dark matter-created metahuman abilities.
Then again... we know from the Constantine episode "Angels and Ministers of Grace" that dark matter is associated with certain magical phenomena. I was a bit unclear whether that show was still in the Arrowverse, since the new Constantine: City of Demons animated series is in a completely different continuity, but apparently CCoD is meant more as a continuation/spinoff of the Justice League Dark animated movie's version of Constantine, so presumably the NBC series is still Arrowverse canon. Which means that dark matter has a connection to magic. That reinforces the idea that magic is a variety of physics we don't understand yet. But it also means that the dark matter-empowered Thinker might potentially have had some defense against magic after all.
Good point. Arthur C Clarke's famous quote, "Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic", certainly comes to mind. I was just using the term magic a little differently, I guess. In mind, I think of magic as being supernatural, ie beyond nature and science as being the tool to explore the natural. By that view, if magic is beyond the natural and science can only understand the natural, then magic is beyond science. You are looking at magic differently, as merely the stuff that is still natural but that our science cannot yet explain. So a caveman would call a rocket magic because he does not understand how it works. Likewise, we would consider telekinesis to be magic but maybe it is actually possible with more advanced science.
I think Christopher's point would be that magic is by definition "natural" if it exists at all -- that if we think it "beyond" natural, that's only because our definition of natural hasn't yet expanded to understand and embrace it.
That's a scientist's POV, however. In common parlance, "magic" does indeed mean exactly what you suggest -- which is why, for example, Kryptonians are vulnerable to it, when they are vulnerable to very little in the "natural" world.
I've never bought that distinction, though. It's confusing the limits on current understanding with absolute reality. "Nature" just means the universe. If magic is part of the universe, then it's natural. Like I said, it's erroneous to think that the stuff we don't understand yet is fundamentally different from the stuff we do. Quantum physics once seemed to be "beyond nature." It still seems like magic to people who don't understand it. But it's an integral part of nature, and science expanded to understand how it worked and how it was interconnected with other phenomena. The same would go for magic. In a universe where it exists, it would be part of the overall tapestry of how the universe worked. Referring to other parts as "natural" and that part as "supernatural" would be an arbitrary and ultimately meaningless distinction. You shouldn't confuse labels for objective truth. Part of what science is for is questioning our preconceptions, not taking our assumptions for granted. It's not a fixed body of knowledge, it's a process for learning new things. Anything that can be learned about is within the purview of science. If wizards can learn magic, so can scientists. "Science" literally just means "knowledge."
Exactly. Christopher is using magic in the "scientific" perspective whereas I was using the term more in the common, popular parlance.
Thanks. I get it. Your perspective is actually quite interesting.
Not if they're muggles.
But much of what's taught at Hogwarts is the science of magic. It's the systematic study and understanding of how magic works and how to use it. It's just a more complete science than Muggles have, just as modern physics with relativity and quantum mechanics is more complete than classical physics.
Just because magic has rules, that does not mean those rules are compatible with nature's rules. The conceit of most stories involving magic is specifically that magic is what is used to go against or even break nature's rules.
You're arguing that because it "exists", science can be extended to it, but the whole point of having a different name for it in fictional stories is to stress that science can't be extended to it, and that it exist outside of the realm of "regular" rules which govern the universe.
Interesting distinction, folks. Thor once explained to Jane that he came from a very advanced world (Asgard) that possessed technology that seemed magical. So what might seem like magic to 21st century humans could be just "modern technology" to a highly advanced civilization.
On the other hand, magic is often illustrated on television and in films as a phenomenon that defies logic or scientific explanation, such as spell casting, divination, and transfiguration. But aren't superpowers by nature magical in that sense? How do you explain a flying being without wings or jet propulsion, or someone who could turn invisible at will?
On the other hand, magic is often illustrated on television and in films as a phenomenon that defies logic or scientific explanation, such as spell casting, divination, and transfiguration. But aren't superpowers by nature magical in that sense? How do you explain a flying being without wings or jet propulsion, or someone who could turn invisible at will?
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