So by freeing Ralph shouldn't Devoe have been killed right then and there? I almost think this episode should have been 2 hours just to explain the whole Matrix thing that was happening.
Spoilers The Flash - Season 4
- Thread starter dahj
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So by freeing Ralph shouldn't Devoe have been killed right then and there? I almost think this episode should have been 2 hours just to explain the whole Matrix thing that was happening.
The other metas were completely dead when DeVoe dumped their bodies to take over the next body (ending with Ralph's body as he was the last switch). This DeVoe were were seeing was Ralph's body just morphing to look like DeVoe. It was still Ralph's body just with the Thinker's mind inside it. When Ralph escapes through the portal, he was taking back control over his body hence why we see DeVoe morph back into Ralph's body. The Thinker then transfers his mind into the chair to save himself.
Presumably, the thinker's mind was still inside Ralph's body, but fading away. The Thinker transfers his mind into the chair to save himself.
Yeah, I think it is a given that Nora pulled a flashpoint and changed the timeline. Seeing time rewind and her joining the fight with Barry the second time makes that clear. No, I don't think Barry died in the first timeline but probably got badly hurt where he was not able to help Nora at some critical junction in the future. That would explain why she went back in time, to help Barry so that he could do something very important in the future but unfortunately she screwed up her own timeline.
I'm surprised they didn't name Barry's daughter Dawn, like in the comics. There's no logical reason not to do that, but then again, they took similar liberties with Black Canary.
From what it appeared, they implied that something went wrong when Barry punched the satellite, and another speedster rewound time and saved him. Given the presence of Nora Allen, the assumption is it was her.
Maybe, maybe not.
But why?
The implication was that Barry would have died but for that.
However, that makes no sense. First, to our knowledge, Iris is not pregnant. That means Barry has to survive to get Iris pregnant.
Second, given the 2024 Crisis, Barry had to survive until at least then.
Third, we knew from last season that Barry survived Devoe.
Fourth, future Barry left behind a message and I think that version was in 2040. Or maybe it was 40 years in the future. I don't remember, but he existed.
So that means that whoever that speedster was, Barry does not owe her his life.
I'm actually hoping they pull a swerve and the second speedster is BART Allen.
From what it appeared, they implied that something went wrong when Barry punched the satellite, and another speedster rewound time and saved him. Given the presence of Nora Allen, the assumption is it was her.
Maybe, maybe not.
But why?
The implication was that Barry would have died but for that.
However, that makes no sense. First, to our knowledge, Iris is not pregnant. That means Barry has to survive to get Iris pregnant.
Second, given the 2024 Crisis, Barry had to survive until at least then.
Third, we knew from last season that Barry survived Devoe.
Fourth, future Barry left behind a message and I think that version was in 2040. Or maybe it was 40 years in the future. I don't remember, but he existed.
So that means that whoever that speedster was, Barry does not owe her his life.
I'm actually hoping they pull a swerve and the second speedster is BART Allen.
Because Cecile can only read minds, not project them into each other. Also, it only works with people close to her. She could connect to Barry, but it required using the cerebral inhibitor to interface Cecile's brain with the chair -- which already had a connection to DeVoe's mind -- to allow the connection to DeVoe's mind.
You could tell by the purple lightning that the second speedster wasn't the Flash.
That's an odd way of looking at it, considering that every one of Nora's prior appearances (aside from her first at the wedding) has been in a "post-finale" tag scene. So this is just continuing the "Nora shows up in the tag" pattern they've established for the past half-season.
And note that she finally said "This house is bitchin'," and Harry repeated things the Speed Force-addled Barry said in the season premiere. Clearly the writers have had Nora's entire season-long arc planned out from the start. They've spent the entire fourth season seeding the fifth -- anything but a hasty afterthought.
I think they let her off way too easy. Even if Marlize redeeemed herself at the end, she's still an accomplice in well over a dozen murders, numerous assaults and thefts, and other crimes. She should have turned herself in to Joe, not just walked away. (But then, these guys have always been too quick to let the people they like get away with crimes. Let's not forget that Harry is still guilty of murdering the Turtle back in season 2.)
Or maybe Barry didn't die, but he failed to stop the satellite crash and it killed many of his friends. Nora's spent months stalking and spying on Team Flash, perhaps for historical research (I'm reminded of the Kristin Wells Superwoman from Elliot S! Maggin's '70s comics), and when the moment of destruction came, she couldn't bear to watch them die.
That is a much better motivation. The deaths of so many people would certainly be a very plausible motivation for why she would risk changing the timeline. She seemed very careful in her previous cameos not to reveal her true identity, like she was trying very carefully to protect the timeline. So it makes sense that her original plan was just to observe without interfering and changing the timeline and helping Barry punch the satellite was something that she decided to do at the last minute, for the reasons you gave.
I look forward to next season where we should get more explanation for Nora's backstory and motivations.
According to showrunner Todd Helbing, Nora West-Allen comes from 30 years in the future. If he's speaking precisely, that means 2048. Interesting, given that Zari Tomaz on Legends comes from a dystopian 2046. Could they be from the same future, or are we dealing with parallel timelines?
Isn’t the first time a CW show changed a name
A while back, I mentioned the possibility that when we saw Nora at the end of a episode, we weren't seeing her in a chronological order from her perspective. I think I noted how her demeanor seemed to change. After the finale, I suspect we were seeing few versions of Nora. She may have changed the future more than once.
Whatever timeline Nora came from before she started it all, doesn't exist anymore and will not be part of the lives of Team Flash.
Her line about Joe's house may imply it wasn't never part of her life, at least not after she was of school age.
Whatever timeline Nora came from before she started it all, doesn't exist anymore and will not be part of the lives of Team Flash.
Her line about Joe's house may imply it wasn't never part of her life, at least not after she was of school age.
I don't think she changed the future more than once. The different cameos we saw throughout the season were probably the same Nora. But I do think she probably went back to her time after helping Barry, realized she screwed up her timeline big time, and traveled back into the past again to ask Team Flash for help. So the Nora we saw in the different cameos was the Nora before she messed up her timeline. That's why she seems more happy. The Nora at the end of the finale, asking for help, looks very somber and worried because this is the Nora from after she messed up her timeline and she knows she is in trouble.
^She didn't always look happy in her previous appearances. She seemed serious and sad when she bumped into Caitlin and Harry at Jitters. She also looked sad when she saw Iris at their apartment, her last appearance before the finale. She paid for Cisco's coffee AFTER her appearance with Harry and Caitlin, and she looked happy.
Also, she didn't seem sad when she saw her parents at the wedding... In fact, she seemed to be enjoying seeing them as if she had heard stories about Barry not saying "I do".
Also, she didn't seem sad when she saw her parents at the wedding... In fact, she seemed to be enjoying seeing them as if she had heard stories about Barry not saying "I do".
I guess we don't know for sure. If Christopher's theory is correct, maybe the happy times was her enjoying seeing her friends and the sad moments we saw was her dreading what was about to happen in the original timeline when Barry failed to stop the satellite and it killed a bunch of people? That could explain her being happy and sad at different times.
I for one, am really looking forward to the next season if it focuses on Nora and her "flashpoint paradox". It should be interesting to learn more about her timeline, see Barry and Iris' interactions with their future daughter, plus see how Barry deals with his daughter making the same mistake he made, especially since now Barry is witnessing flashpoint from the other perspective. Now he is the victim instead of the perpetrator of a changed a timeline.
If next season or a portion is about yet another speedster on The Flash altering the timeline, I am going to be annoyed if the Legends don't appear to fix the anomalies. You have a team(and organization) who responds to alterations in the timeline, but NEVER do they appear when the timeline is changed on The Flash.
Nobody maintains a constant, unvarying mood 24/7. If you went back in time to meet and interact with family friends and famous heroes who'd died before you were born, you'd probably alternate between feeling thrilled at the opportunity to observe and meet them while they were still alive and feeling regretful at the realization that they'd soon be dead. No need to posit alternate timelines, just the changeable nature of human moods, especially in a situation that sparks conflicting emotions.
The simplest explanation is that Nora came back merely to observe, that she's been doing nothing but observing all season, that her moods have naturally shifted over the course of that process as any person's would, and that when the satellite crash came and she saw its outcome, she finally made an impulsive decision to rewind time by a few seconds and join the Flash in stopping it, and that was the first and only time she altered the timeline from the version she knew. And once she saw the consequences of that change (presumably), she came back to get her parents' help in fixing the "Norapoint" she'd created.
The simplest explanation is that Nora came back merely to observe, that she's been doing nothing but observing all season, that her moods have naturally shifted over the course of that process as any person's would, and that when the satellite crash came and she saw its outcome, she finally made an impulsive decision to rewind time by a few seconds and join the Flash in stopping it, and that was the first and only time she altered the timeline from the version she knew. And once she saw the consequences of that change (presumably), she came back to get her parents' help in fixing the "Norapoint" she'd created.
I like this explanation the best. I just realized something: what if "Norapoint" brought Reverse Flash back to life? It would certainly be a good enough comic book explanation as any to bring Reverse Flash back. It will be interesting to see what the consequences of her changes to the timeline were that caused her to go back to Team Flash. Maybe "Norapoint" created the dystopian future that Zari was from?
I already regret coining "Norapoint"... 
I already regret coining "Norapoint"...
You can't go back in time and undo it now.
I absolutely loved this finale. But what if the the hologram thinker at the end had escaped into the world wide web? I think that could have created some interesting possibilities for a digital Thinker to be a recurring villain later in the series. I think I would have liked that. The actor playing DeVoe was great and a digital super smart villain is a great concept.
Meh, Norapoint sounds like it could've been Nora Darhk who was responsible.I already regret coining "Norapoint"...
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