Discovery Showrunner Promises Season 2 Character Exploration And Tying Up Canon Loose Ends

[BillJ]

...it didn't bring much that was new to the table in that regard.

They had the Spore Drive, they could go anywhere and do anything. Yet, we got more Mirror Universe and more Klingons after a decade-plus off the air. Then we're moving on to the Enterprise and Spock in season two. "Hey! Remember this minutiae? We do too!"

For me, Discovery was such a missed opportunity. When you can go anywhere and do anything I want creativity on the level of "Where No One Has Gone Before", not tired rehashes of concepts.

 

[jaime]

They had the Spore Drive, they could go anywhere and do anything. Yet, we got more Mirror Universe and more Klingons after a decade-plus off the air. Then we're moving on to the Enterprise and Spock in season two. "Hey! Remember this minutiae? We do too!"

For me, Discovery was such a missed opportunity. When you can go anywhere and do anything I want creativity on the level of "Where No One Has Gone Before", not tired rehashes of concepts.

I suppose there's an argument about wanting to go more deep dive on a race, and avoid bumpy forehead of the week syndrome, and an argument about questioning what we knew through new events... But it chose the klingon for the first, so that had been done, and the second wasn't really working. Downplaying kirk into 'a' captain of the enterprise isn't going to work well I suspect, and that examination of Treks concept and Federation ideals has already been done before, and done well. ENT for all its flaws already covered 'how we get tbere' and I just end up feeling my fears of terminal prequelitis I aired when the setting was announced will come to pass. It might be interesting, and enjoyable in places, but unless it finds a new hook, it's always going to be hollow at its core. My best hope is that we get that post VI series from Meyer, and if those do well, or we'll enough and soon enough, we will get the post Nemesis series that was always the actual best plan. The generation who grew up on TNG through to VOY are now of an age where getting a few cameos in would make a lot of sense.... Something the Twin Peaks and X Files recently proved, even if the latter kind of... Died.
Maybe they can bozeman the DSC. Solves some issues with the spore drive too. If Stamets and the only functioning drive get flung into a future where AI like data is possible, it covers why the federation never pursued it and saves having to stick it all in a black bag at seasons end.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe they can bozeman the DSC. Solves some issues with the spore drive too. If Stamets and the only functioning drive get flung into a future where AI like data is possible, it covers why the federation never pursued it and saves having to stick it all in a black bag at seasons end.

I guess I'm not even sure they'd need to do that. Admit it is an alternate timeline and call it a day.

 

[jaime]

I guess I'm not even sure they'd need to do that. Admit it is an alternate timeline and call it a day.

I always argued for why Prime Timeline makes most sense for a new series, I stand by those comments, and apart from some visuals clashing with TOS, it's still not entirely impossible to grow some hair on those klingons and smooth over the continuity bumps.
I probably wouldn't have watched to the end if it wasn't a prime series, and suspect I am not alone in that. Trek thrives on something approaching continuity.

 

[BillJ]

I always argued for why Prime Timeline makes most sense for a new series...

I think if they were working past the Berman years (post-2371), then I could see an argument to be made. Because the future of the series would be wide open. Trying to cram it eight years prior to TOS doesn't make a lot of sense to me, beyond marketing.

 

[jaime]

I think if they were working past the Berman years (post-2371), then I could see an argument to be made. Because the future of the series would be wide open. Trying to cram it eight years prior to TOS doesn't make a lot of sense to me, beyond marketing.

Yup.
And marketing is why a prime series in general makes most sense anyway... You don't get to have a 60th anniversary merchandise bonanza if its a reboot... That's like celebrating your wedding anniversary from your first marriage when you got divorced and are on your second wife. XD

Apart from compelling g reasonsike Treks unique place in having something of a future history tapestry going on, and it's role in entertainment history.

 

[BillJ]

Apart from compelling g reasonsike Treks unique place in having something of a future history tapestry going on, and it's role in entertainment history.

I'd rather have good stories.

 

[jaime]

I'd rather have good stories.

Totally. But I don’t think one precludes the other. People are regarding this as a reboot anyway, and still are t getting the story they want. The same happened with the more obvious reboot when ID boldly went back to Khan.

Trek has a reboot of sorts when you get a new series anyway. So it doesn’t benefit from the underlying reasons to reboot. Having to spend less time worldbuilding can help get stories done too...no need to explain transporters etc. There’s a history there, so you don’t need to Explain your setting. A reboot needs to show what’s the same, what’s new, and possibly introduce old concepts as entirely new for a new audience and an old one, rather than relying on established geography as it were. That’s part of the failure in the new Klingons...they are written with a dependence on old lore (the language, Kahless) but don’t look like Klingons enough to not make it jarring. There’s no synergy...though they tried for that by suggesting episodes of older series to watch on After Trek.

 

[BillJ]

But I don’t think one precludes the other.

I don't either. But these writers need all the help they can get.

 

[BillJ]

I guess from my perspective, a small side storyline connecting with TOS would've been fine, and maybe welcomed depending on how they did it.

Sarek, on his own would've been fine.
Amanda, on her own would've been fine.
Harry Mudd, on his own would've been fine.
The Klingons, on their own would've been fine.
The Mirror Universe on its own would've been fine.
Spock, on his own would've been fine.
The Enterprise, on its own would've been fine.

Though when the majority of the series is all the above, it feels creatively bankrupt to me. Like the writers aren't sold on what they've created being able to be successful.

 

[Dukhat]

Why are you talking abou it if haven’t watched it?
I don’t understand the point of talking about something you’ve never watched. You’d have no context for conversations.

That’s why I asked if they already explained it. You quoted that part of my post, so I’m not sure why that was such a problem for you to comprehend.

You’ve not directly experienced the foibles of the bureaucratic mind? What Kirk (or any mid-level officer) “should know” and what higher ups choose to reveal are not bound by logic and rational decision making. The fact Kirk appears to have no idea of otherwise useful classified information is probably one of the most realistic things ever portrayed on Trek (even if accidental).

That doesn’t really change anything. For me, logic dictates that Kirk should already have been aware of the existence of the MU because it’s something that he as a starship captain should be privy to. If Starfleet felt he didn’t need to know, then Starfleet is filled with a bunch of idiots, as you imply. But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t DSC’s intent to imply that.

 

[Sakonna]

There is something so odd to me about how frequently the Disco producers talk about their adherence to canon, to then make this show that violates canon all over the place. Either approach could potentially yield great Trek, but it's just bizarre to me that they claimed to make one while actually making the other. (God, they did this with the Klingons also. "We're going to finally flesh out and truly develop Klingon society!" while they proceeded to turn them into the Empty Cartoon Villains that the previous series had supposedly portrayed them as)

Maybe all the ways Disco didn't fit in the established timeline really were just a result of showrunner/staff churn, and now it'll all settle down into a more consistent approach in season 2. But it's always a red flag for me when the showrunners description of what they're doing does not actually match what is manifesting on screen...

 

[Groppler Zorn]

There is something so odd to me about how frequently the Disco producers talk about their adherence to canon, to then make this show that violates canon all over the place. Either approach could potentially yield great Trek, but it's just bizarre to me that they claimed to make one while actually making the other. (God, they did this with the Klingons also. "We're going to finally flesh out and truly develop Klingon society!" while they proceeded to turn them into the Empty Cartoon Villains that the previous series had supposedly portrayed them as)

Maybe all the ways Disco didn't fit in the established timeline really were just a result of showrunner/staff churn, and now it'll all settle down into a more consistent approach in season 2. But it's always a red flag for me when the showrunners description of what they're doing does not actually match what is manifesting on screen...

I’m not defending DSC by any means, but in terms of canon violations, they seem to be drawing the line at “things that have happened in episodes reduced to the mere events and that’s it”.

By that definition they haven’t *technically* violated anything because nothing that’s happened in DSC means that, say, “journey to Babel” couldn’t have happened or whatever.

I’m going to take a shower now to get the fact that I just defended DSC’s approach to canon off me.

 

[AlanC9]

For me, logic dictates that Kirk should already have been aware of the existence of the MU because it’s something that he as a starship captain should be privy to. If Starfleet felt he didn’t need to know, then Starfleet is filled with a bunch of idiots, as you imply. But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t DSC’s intent to imply that.

Isn't this wholly consistent with Starfleet's portrayal over the decades? Lots of their decisions don't make much sense.

The flip side of keeping the MU secret is not keeping Talos IV secret. There's no better way to advertise that there's something really important on that planet than to have a standing general order about it.

 

[Rahul]

"Discovery Showrunner Promises Season 2 Character Exploration And Tying Up Canon Loose Ends"

https://trekmovie.com/2018/05/20/st...er-exploration-and-tying-up-canon-loose-ends/

Edit: I broke the title

Didn't they already promised us this for the end of season 1? Didn't seem very successfull, did it...?

 

[Dukhat]

Isn't this wholly consistent with Starfleet's portrayal over the decades? Lots of their decisions don't make much sense.

The flip side of keeping the MU secret is not keeping Talos IV secret. There's no better way to advertise that there's something really important on that planet than to have a standing general order about it.

I can’t be privy to the rationale behind all the decisions that a fictional organization makes. I can only use logic as a basis for what I see in any particular situation. And logic tells me that Kirk should have been told about the MU by his superiors.

 

[DaveyNY]

Interesting stuff. My favourite part is this:

“They say boundaries and restrictions can be good and for us it was good”​

Watching DSC I didn’t feel that they had any boundaries at all. As far as “canon” is concerned they’ve not invalidated any events, it’s not as though this episode didn’t happen or that episode can’t have happened because of xyz on DSC. I think they’ve been pretty careful so as to exist in a scenario where any boundaries don’t really apply.
(Except the visuals because we’re assuming that in-universe, the fact that someone designed starships and uniforms the way they did wasn’t actually a fact so therefore can be rebooted. Ok I think I finally get that logic - it’s on television - I’m over it).

And again with the discourse of diversity. I think I understand that DSC is diverse. I don’t think it’s any more diverse than, say, DS9, but ok DSC wants us all to know it’s diverse. And woke. And also diverse. I think I’ve cracked that particular code.

Can we have something about how you’re going to improve the storytelling please?

What’s that? You’re diverse? Yes, I understand that point. What about the storytelling? You’re woke, you say. Well that’s just jim dandy. What about the storytelling of season 2? How will you improve it? Ah. You’re diverse. Gotcha.

Man alive this is getting as repetitive as the record player Captain Kirk had in his quarters on earth in into darkness if it broke.

I'm still going with the Temporal Shenanigans of "ENTERPRISE" as having moved Discovery's external look slightly to the left of the Original Series.
Therefore this is still 'Technically' the "Prime Universe", but with the updated visual changes accounted for.

For me, that also gives Them a bit of wiggle room for all the other differences we saw in Season 1 and any future ones They add.

It would be rather interesting to see a redux of "Balance of Terror", taking into account the earlier cloaking device usage and a tweak of Scotty's "... simple impules power.."

 

[DaveyNY]

It's simple. Kirk is a captain, not a fleet admiral. Some things are classified and above his pay grade. No need for any convoluted explanations. Done.

Especially since the Admiralty would very much like for none of that info to become public knowledge.
(imagine the public panic THAT would produce)
The whole incident was probably swept into General Order #4 category.

 

[DaveyNY]

That’s why I asked if they already explained it. You quoted that part of my post, so I’m not sure why that was such a problem for you to comprehend.



That doesn’t really change anything. For me, logic dictates that Kirk should already have been aware of the existence of the MU because it’s something that he as a starship captain should be privy to. If Starfleet felt he didn’t need to know, then Starfleet is filled with a bunch of idiots, as you imply. But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t DSC’s intent to imply that.

I think you are completely forgetting about things like the "Pegasus Incident" and such.
Cases where something really major happened and the Star Fleet Admiralty kept it under wraps for decades.
"Idiot's" describes some of the Admirals we've encountered throughout the entire Star Trek Videography perfectly.

 

[Dukhat]

I’m not forgetting anything. “The Pegasus” concerned one captain and one ship. The MU concerned a galaxy-spanning conquering empire of complete duplicates that has the potential of crossing into our universe and waging war or duplicating important personnel. Not at all the same scenario.