Ontario Provincial Politics

[Marc]

You shoot your mouth and then you get pissy when your opponents call you out for it?

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...controversial-comments-about-immigration.html

welcome to the world of provincial politicis dougie boy.

 

[Owain Taggart]

He seems kind of soft, not being able to take the ribbing. Not so surprised anymore though.

As far as the hydro thing, it's all about the delivery fees. Remember when they put in those smart meters? They were supposed to make it more efficient and help reduce costs, but somehow the Liberals through their mismanagement let the costs balloon out of control, delivery fees being one of the problems. And then the sale on top of that. I think Ontarians were gypped. What should have been a simple money-saving process ended up an extremely unevenly handled mess. It's even worse for businesses that have relied on hydro that suddenly can't afford it.

 

[Marc]

He seems kind of soft, not being able to take the ribbing. Not so surprised anymore though.

As far as the hydro thing, it's all about the delivery fees. Remember when they put in those smart meters? They were supposed to make it more efficient and help reduce costs, but somehow the Liberals through their mismanagement let the costs balloon out of control, delivery fees being one of the problems. And then the sale on top of that. I think Ontarians were gypped. What should have been a simple money-saving process ended up an extremely unevenly handled mess. It's even worse for businesses that have relied on hydro that suddenly can't afford it.

The smart meters were for time of day charging - I'm not sure they have to do with the delivery fee - that's more impacted by where you live rather than anything that's metered by the box.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I think Ontarians were gypped.

Sorry, but I need to put on the mod hat for a second. I'm assuming you didn't mean anything by this, because many people don't seem to be aware of the etymology. So just in case you don't know, that term basically comes from a racial slur and can be considered offensive. It would probably be best to avoid its use in the future. Thank you.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Right, I understand. I meant ripped off I wasn't aware of it and learned something new today.

 

[Marc]

I still don't think the business should be getting tax cuts because a) the province has some of the lowest business tax rates in the country and b) there's a fuckton of evidence to show they fail to stimulate capital investment and job growth.

However ford is right in on the right track about stopping doling out money to business (though some businesses in my area have recently recieved trillium grants to help with investment in plant and equipment that's allowed them to expand and create more jobs).

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...ash-for-ontario-companies-doug-ford-says.html

That said the ban should also include the incentives such as a extra tax breaks for companies looking to set up in the province (especially when there's frequently little to tie them here as we saw a couple of years back when a steel plant shutdown, the U.S owners asset stripped it while the Canadian arm which held all the workers liabilities declared bankruptcy).

 

[Owain Taggart]

The smart meters were for time of day charging - I'm not sure they have to do with the delivery fee - that's more impacted by where you live rather than anything that's metered by the box.

I think overall, the hydro thing has been a real mess compounded by more than a single issue with it; delivery fees, the hydro sale, etc. I think the point is that it's been real hard to pinpoint, especially when the energy minister who ironically is the MP for the Sudbury area, who originally was pressuring for answers when he was an MPP, dances around the issue so much and not giving clear answers, only trying to justify the whole mess. This is the kind of world we live in now. I think with all indications, selling off the hydro company was a huge mistake. Because, where is the money going exactly? The government could be using the money to fund other projects like the improved transit.

 

[Marc]

I think with all indications, selling off the hydro company was a huge mistake. Because, where is the money going exactly? The government could be using the money to fund other projects like the improved transit.

That's the sort of area the money has been going but I suspect the vast majority is getting sucked into transit in Toronto

The only bigger screwup than partially privatizing Hydro would have been the complete sale (which has long been on the tory agenda - something that people again seem to have forgotten in their anger over prices). Really don't think or care that government should own banks or airlines or whatever but something essential like hydro should always remain in govt control rather than in the hands of the private sector who will demand bigger and bigger profits each year.

And back to my earlier post - I wonder if ford's ban on money to companies would also carry into the horse racing industry seeing as the government is pumping in millions to keep it alive seeing as it's unable to survive without slot machine money.

 

[Timewalker]

I admittedly haven't been following Alberta politics that closely, but I thought I read recently that Kenney had promised not to touch the GSAs or the notification rules?

He promised, but that's no guarantee that the rest of them won't keep harping on it. It's a mess now, what with some of the Catholic/private faith-based schools insisting that they have every right to run roughshod over kids' right to privacy or even to have these groups in the first place.

One thing everyone needs to keep clearly in mind: Jason Kenney is one of Stephen Harper's lapdogs. I would not trust him to clean my cat's litter box, let alone run the province.

So let's see, in the first debate, Doug Ford told Premier Wynne that "you obviously don't understand numbers". Yet his own understanding of how math works seems suspect at best.

He should take heed of the three little words that were partly responsible for Jim Prentice losing the 2015 election here to Rachel Notley: "Math is hard."

Notley's math was right, Prentice's wasn't, and the condescending way he said it was all some people needed as that extra push to turf the Conservatives.

 

[Marc]

He should take heed of the three little words that were partly responsible for Jim Prentice losing the 2015 election here to Rachel Notley: "Math is hard."

It's the same and yet different. On one hand it's ford pining for the old ways where kids learnt by rote, on the other is that ford's numbers aren't adding up during the election campaign.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edi...-his-campaign-promises-suggest-he-should.html

One of Progressive Conservative Leader Doug Ford’s folksy policy announcements last week came with the subject line “2 + 2 = ?”

It was supposed to be a reference to Ontario’s math curriculum, which he doesn’t like, but it seems far more apt as a reference to his own muddled financial thinking.

Ford is piling up spending promises at the same time as he’s racking up tax breaks and other hits to government revenues.
......
“Math is hard,” Ford said, in his release last week condemning Ontario’s math curriculum.

He’s not wrong about the first part: Math is hard.

He wants kids to go back to “basic math,” such as memorizing multiplication tables. There are plenty of reasons why the current “discovery math” curriculum, which requires kids to apply their basic math skills to problem solving, is better than the old rote learning system.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The only bigger screwup than partially privatizing Hydro would have been the complete sale (which has long been on the tory agenda - something that people again seem to have forgotten in their anger over prices).

Yeah, I remember when the Liberals were coming in and promising to fix those hydro problems from the previous government. I think it was part of their campaign promises. Instead of fixing, they managed to mangle it up even worse which is hard to believe given the shape it was in before. I think part of the issue many people have over the whole hydro issue has been the dishonesty and the dancing around.

 

[Kelthaz]

New poll released by Ipsos today shows the NDP within striking distance of the OPC. It's not over yet guys.

OPC - 40% (unchanged)
NDP - 35% (that's up 6 points since Ipsos' poll last week)
LIB - 22% (down 4 points since Ipsos' poll last week)

Unfortunately Horwath doesn't seem to be chipping away at the OPC support and she really needs to drop the Conservatives a bit to win this thing. Due to our wonderful FPTP system, even if it ends up NDP 41% and OPC 40%, Ford is still likely to win a majority government.

 

[Marc]

New poll released by Ipsos today shows the NDP within striking distance of the OPC. It's not over yet guys.

OPC - 40% (unchanged)
NDP - 35% (that's up 6 points since Ipsos' poll last week)
LIB - 22% (down 4 points since Ipsos' poll last week)

Unfortunately Horwath doesn't seem to be chipping away at the OPC support and she really needs to drop the Conservatives a bit to win this thing. Due to our wonderful FPTP system, even if it ends up NDP 41% and OPC 40%, Ford is still likely to win a majority government.

Over the weekend The Star had an article on "the anyone but doug" factor about support shifting between the Liberals and NDP with the direction dependent on which party was in the best position to keep ford at bay. Think the poll is now reflecting that sentiment.

and yes FPTP is an abomination and am still pissed at trudeau for his backflip on getting rid of it federally at least and monsef should have been dumped from cabinet completely for her handling of the issue.

 

[Timewalker]

and yes FPTP is an abomination and am still pissed at trudeau for his backflip on getting rid of it federally at least and monsef should have been dumped from cabinet completely for her handling of the issue.

Her mishandling, rather. Of course it's clear now that it was going to be Trudeau's way or the highway on this.

But as the federal election in 2015 shows, a really determined "Anyone But _____" movement can work. It made no difference in my riding (typical Alberta; you could run a mosquito in my riding as a Reformacon and it would be elected), but did in others.

 

[Marc]

article in the local paper today about a recent all candidates debate where one of the topics was the basic income pilot programe. The Lib and NDP candidates sayd their party would continue with it, the tory candidate said that instead of topping up people's income the province should be cutting business costs.

The candidate is a local business but I do wonder what planet he's living on. Cost savings for businesses are never passed onto consumers on the increases. The savings are simply taken as increased profits.

Secondly it ignores issues like gas prices go up because the oil prices go up (often due to market manipulation by the oil producing countries), food prices are affected to by seasonal and weather factors and housing is in short supply.

Finally for many business, the biggest cost centre isn't hydro, it's not government taxes it's their staff and there they claim that lower wages will mean more people get employed. Pity there's never any evidence to show it actually happens.

And now dougie wants to take the axe to the gas tax which will probably cost us a lot more because that's money that flows to the municipalities and gets used for transit related projects - it's not money that flows totally into provincial coffers.

There's also the continuing lack of details from ford - all these tax cuts but then claiming that he'll have a balanced provincial budget in the 2nd or 3yr. Not going to happen when you're taking billions out of it unless you're going to make savage cuts. People might start wondering which city will be the next Walkerton.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...es-to-cut-gas-prices-by-10-cents-a-litre.html

 

[Avro Arrow]

There's also the continuing lack of details from ford - all these tax cuts but then claiming that he'll have a balanced provincial budget in the 2nd or 3yr. Not going to happen when you're taking billions out of it unless you're going to make savage cuts. People might start wondering which city will be the next Walkerton.

I read in an article recently (forget where, maybe one linked above?) where it pointed out that Ford accuses his opponents of "Tax. Tax. Tax. Spend. Spend. Spend."... but everything Ford has said so far has amounted to "No tax. No tax. No tax. Spend. Spend. Spend!" Where does he think government money comes from? The only thing we've got out of him so far is "but, efficiencies!"

The National Post's Christie Blatchford is pretty far right-wing. I don't think I've agreed with, well... anything she's ever written, really. And yet here she is praising... Kathleen Wynne!

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...leen-wynne-makes-it-difficult-to-see-her-lose

This is a weird one. The PC candidate for Brampton East, who used to work at the 407 ETR, abruptly resigned about an hour after the company announced that data on 60,000 customers was stolen, seemingly as an inside job.

http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...eeway-could-be-linked-to-pc-party-recruitment

 

[Marc]

Where does he think government money comes from? The only thing we've got out of him so far is "but, efficiencies!"

And earlier article pointed out that the "efficiencies" is a well worn ford card on how to save money without giving any details.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The National Post's Christie Blatchford is pretty far right-wing. I don't think I've agreed with, well... anything she's ever written, really. And yet here she is praising... Kathleen Wynne!

Well, there's no denying she's smarter, more informed and capable. Whether she's actually the correct candidate for the moment due to policies is another matter entirely.

What I find funny is that in article, she [Wynne] criticizes the NDP for not being held accountable for anything they've said since 1995. That's rather the pot calling the kettle black seeing as she's been criticized the same on many issues throughout her terms.

 

[Warped9]

I cannot stand Kathleen Wynne and never have. She is more Trump like than what she and Horvath accuse Ford of being. Wynne likes to think she knows better than anyone else, lies and gets pissy and bullying when others disagree with her.

She and the Liberals have been attrocious managers. Health care and Hydro have been disasters in Ontario with the Liberals and Wynne running things.

The raising of the minimum wage was long overdue, but they were hamfisted in how they handled it. Ditto with the sex-ed curriculum. She got all pissy and insulting when others had valid criticisms and concerns.

I cannot wait to see the last of this hag.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I cannot wait to see the last of this hag.

This is exactly the problem I have with a lot of political discourse in this province right now. It's one thing to criticize her policies or legislation, but this level of personal attack is uncalled for. As one of the articles I linked to earlier in the thread stated, male politicians don't normally have to put up with the same level of vitriol.