Ontario Provincial Politics

[Owain Taggart]

I suspected his popularity would erode as the campaign progressed, evening things out a little. What I hadn't expected was how little the Liberal party would have. I thought they might have had an edge, but I guess not. I guess voters are truly ready for change.

 

[Marc]

I suspected his popularity would erode as the campaign progressed, evening things out a little. What I hadn't expected was how little the Liberal party would have. I thought they might have had an edge, but I guess not. I guess voters are truly ready for change.

Out of curiosity I had a look at the results from the last time the province changed party in power (2003) which was after 8 years of the tories which saw the Libs pick up 24 seats and 46% of the vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_general_election,_2003

But that was after only 8 years and harris had done a mulroney and left some-one else to carry the can as opposed to 15 years of the liberals and wynne sticking around.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Yeah, it's been long enough. It's less about Wynne at this point, and more about the Liberal party in general. To come out of their grip would be nice. I really feel they were getting complacent and too sure of themselves after having been in power for so long, to the point of feeling like they were the only ones that could provide.

 

[Marc]

Patrick Brown is denying fords's claims about the state of OPC saying it wasn't in a mess.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...io-pc-party-was-not-left-in-a-mess-brown.html

and more questions about ford and candidates.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...in-tory-nomination/ar-AAxIAVu?ocid=spartandhp

And this one

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...rty-memberships-audio-recording-suggests.html

in the op-ed piece by Brown above he mentions a belief that parties can no longer honestly handle their own pre-selections and that it should be handled by an independent 3rd party. Gotta say I agree with him on that.

The tories want people to remember the NDP under Rae, the liberals for Wynne and McGtinty but I guess not so keen for people to remember harris - not only for his damage to to hydro but his damage to healthcare because ford won't be any better when he's got close health advisers who want a 2 tier system with private healthcare.

Also claiming no more "hallway medicine" but wants to cut the budget. At present hospitals get $17bil from the province. Payments to doctors amount to $12.5bil.

He could abolish the lihns but I'm nots sure that would deliver the money necessary.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...23/hard-times-for-health-care-under-ford.html

 

[Owain Taggart]

We'll be voting in the early voting as we're heading off on the 7th to go camping down in Lake Huron.

Oh as for hallway medicine, yeah, we've had a lot of that at our local hospital. Pretty bad situation. Too much overcrowding and a lack of resources and hospitals are already stretched thin enough as is and wondering how much more they can cut.

 

[Kelthaz]

So a new poll from Forum shows the NDP ahead of the OPC by 17 points. Forum is notoriously wacky and tends to exaggerate trends, but EKOS is also showing a 10 point lead for the NDP.

 

[Marc]

So a new poll from Forum shows the NDP ahead of the OPC by 17 points. Forum is notoriously wacky and tends to exaggerate trends, but EKOS is also showing a 10 point lead for the NDP.

To early for the stench of soiled underwear out of the tories but it has to be a worrying trend for them.

If the tories lose the election I can't see ford staying as leader for long - no party will tolerate a leader who took a massive lead at the start of the campaign and blew it.

At which point I can't see ford staying long. A back bencher in opposition isn't his cup of tea.

 

[Marc]

what is ford's fascination with alcohol?

First he wants to have it sold in corner shops, now he's talking about the return of $1 beer deals?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/the-campaigner-may-26-1.4679151

Surely the province has more pressing issues?

Surely the tories couild release policy details instead of crap like this.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I think at this point, Ford is throwing ideas around to see what makes him popular while his popularity among the polls is declining. He's doing that to see what sticks and what will get him attention and likely as a diversionary tactic to avoid having to talk about pressing issues.

 

[Avro Arrow]

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...rty-memberships-audio-recording-suggests.html

If your sole defense to a serious breach of ethics is, "oh, that was so 2016!", you may have a bit of a problem.

And stalking another candidate and following her to her home?? What is even up with that? This is not someone I want in charge of the province.

I don't recall if this particular article was posted earlier, so here it is in case.

Doug Ford has only himself to blame for PCs' woes

If the tories lose the election I can't see ford staying as leader for long - no party will tolerate a leader who took a massive lead at the start of the campaign and blew it.

At which point I can't see ford staying long. A back bencher in opposition isn't his cup of tea.

Is it too late for him to get back into the Toronto mayoral race? I can totally see him trying for that one again.

Surely the tories couild release policy details instead of crap like this.

He has promised to release a costed platform (sometime) before the election. Better late than never?

Doug Ford says he'll release fully costed platform before election

I think at this point, Ford is throwing ideas around to see what makes him popular while his popularity among the polls is declining. He's doing that to see what sticks and what will get him attention and likely as a diversionary tactic to avoid having to talk about pressing issues.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorial_cartoon/2018/05/25/greg-perry-ford-campaign.html


If their party rules had actually allowed the leadership candidate with the most votes and most ridings won to actually win the leadership (crazy, I know), then I don't think they would be in this situation now. Just speaking personally, although I am not a conservative, I would have been fine with a Premier Elliott. That doesn't scare me like the thought of a Premier Ford does.

On that note:

Picture this: The Ontario PCs chose the competent woman over the bloviating man
(Please note, this article is behind a paywall (sorry), but if you have access, it is well worth the read.)

We'll be voting in the early voting as we're heading off on the 7th to go camping down in Lake Huron.

Have fun!

 

[Marc]

If your sole defense to a serious breach of ethics is, "oh, that was so 2016!", you may have a bit of a problem.

And stalking another candidate and following her to her home?? What is even up with that? This is not someone I want in charge of the province.

The tories are claimed that doug was cleared of any wrong doing back in 2016 but then he wasn't seriously a candidate nor was he the party the leader so I wonder how hard they really looked.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...of-membership-buying-allegations-in-2016.html

Is it too late for him to get back into the Toronto mayoral race? I can totally see him trying for that one again.

Nominations for municipal elections close at the beginning of July so he'd have plenty of time though I think he'd piss quite a few people off if he try and jump back onto the Toronto Council.

He has promised to release a costed platform (sometime) before the election. Better late than never?

Doug Ford says he'll release fully costed platform before election

I guess 6pm on Monday the 6th would count at as before the election right?

although I am not a conservative, I would have been fine with a Premier Elliott. That doesn't scare me like the thought of a Premier Ford does.

yeah I'm the same.

 

[Avro Arrow]

This goes back to more the original question of the thread ("Why is Premier Kathleen Wynne so unpopular?"). My apologies, it is again behind a paywall, but if you do have access, it is totally a worthwhile read.

Why is Kathleen Wynne so unpopular? Six degrees of alienation

Obviously I cannot quote the entire article here, but I believe I am allowed to quote some small excerpts, as long as they are limited.

Here are the "six degrees" the headline refers to. Please note, some of them are a little pithy, and you really do need the article for the context for what they are saying.

1 - Party baggage
2 - Her school-marm ways
3 - A party of elites
4 - Losing the rest of the province
5 - Policy anger
6 - Because she is a woman

And some random quotes:

Since the 2014 election, the province's economy, normally a bellwether of a premier's popularity, has done exceptionally well; GDP growth has been the second best of any province except British Columbia. Ontario has gained 335,000 new jobs, and unemployment has fallen from 7.4 per cent in June, 2014, to 5.5 per cent in March this year, again second only to B.C.

When he polls people on why they so badly want to get rid of Ms. Wynne, many cite a simple desire for something different. "You get answers like, 'It's time for a change,' and when you ask people why, they can't really articulate why," he says.

Mr. Duffy, the Liberal Party strategist, believes female political leaders face scrutiny that is different in type and tone from what men receive. Social media, he adds, only amplifies the toxicity
...
What is measurable: the big divide between her support, during the campaign, among men and women, particularly when it comes to voters over age 45, where men overwhelmingly prefer the Tories and women are more evenly split among the three parties.

 

[Marc]

I definately agree that some of the vitriol directed at Wynne has a lot to do with her gender. it doesn't seem as bad if the female leader is a conservative (such as Theresa May, Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel) but the vitriol that I seen publically hurled at liberal female leaders (Hilary Clinton, former Australian P.M Julia Gillard) has been very nasty.

Think the writer of the following letter to the Toronto Star misses the point of endorsements by bodies whether, business groups, news papers or trade unions and seem to think that the becasue the EFTO has endorsed the NDP all the union members must vote that way.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/let...-from-teachers-union-curbs-voter-freedom.html

sometimes the ignorance about our system of governance is truly disturbing and unless the author is a new voter who's just turned 18 I can't believe they haven't come across endorsements for political parties before.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Final debate was this evening...

Final Ontario election debate turns nasty

ETA: if you missed it and want to see it, CBC has it on YouTube here:

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The actual debate part starts at 29:30.

 

[Marc]

Final debate was this evening...

Final Ontario election debate turns nasty

ETA: if you missed it and want to see it, CBC has it on YouTube here:

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

The actual debate part starts at 29:30.

Would sooner poke my eyes out that watch the political debates but did read about it The Star.

Ford going on about how people have told him they would leave the province if the NDP won etc etc. No biggy there - could find the people with a similar reaction to the thought of the tories under ford winnng.

He also keeps going on about the NDP under Rae but I'm surprised that no-one want to remind people of life under the Harris tories.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Has anyone had any issues having the election cards arriving in the mail? Granted, a lot of people can vote online now, but we've traditionally all gotten our election cards on time. This year was different though, and I'm not entirely sure what the issue was but 1) My Dad wasn't on the list and had to notify them, 2) My Mom didn't get hers either until she called.

None of which had happened before. I got mine first. Then my Dad eventually got his. And then my Mom got hers yersterday, along with a second one for my Dad.

 

[Marc]

My voter card arrived last Thursday, the wife's was in the mail today.

In-laws got thers last week but had the right street address for the polling location but had the wrong muncipality.

 

[Garak]

So it looks like the NDP is gaining ground on Ford - I don't get it, do people in Ontario not have computers so they can't research and see how disastrous the NDP has been in Alberta and British Colombia?

Ontario is where it's at because the Liberals acted like they were NDP.

Very interesting. Anyways, I'd go with the one dollar beer guy.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Well, the NDP in Ontario I would think to be an entirely different beast than the one in Alberta or BC. Different values and issues. What might be right for those provinces doesn't necessarily translate for other provinces. You often can't make straight comparisons due to long-standing issues each province has had to deal with. Fact is, the province is ready for change after having had 13 years of Liberals.

 

[Avro Arrow]

He also keeps going on about the NDP under Rae but I'm surprised that no-one want to remind people of life under the Harris tories.

I did watch it (eyes are still thankfully intact! ), and the Harris cuts to health care and education were brought up a couple of times.

It really strikes me how, well... empty Doug Ford is, for lack of a better term. Not only during the debate, but in the scrum afterwards. Severe lack of details, never directly answering anything. I know avoiding a question is sort of a politician thing, but... well, let's just say for someone who goes on and on about how much he dislikes/distrusts politicians, he sure sounds like one.

By contrast, Wynne and Horwath both seemed to have much more substance. I actually thought that Wynne did the best overall in the debate, but I've already admitted that I'm predisposed to liking her, so that may just be my bias talking.

Has anyone had any issues having the election cards arriving in the mail?

Mine arrived mid-last week.

And because I can't post to this thread without linking to something, here's another opinion piece lamenting Wynne's perpetually low popularity numbers:

Kathleen Wynne doesn't deserve the disdain of voters

We'll probably all miss her terribly when she's gone.