Do you think Barclay and Troi had sex when they went on a date at the end of "The Nth Degree"?

[Nakita Akita]

I know. That was what I was talking about in terms of people having the oposite view on one who never feels like they are sexy. The inability to find some middle ground where people get respect and yet still get to feel all those other feelings as well has been a problem with society. People want to have the entire range of the human experience such as respect,love, getting to feel sexy and getting to feel important but society doesn't always let people have it. Not sure how to fix it. Society is going to keep going no matter what anybody thinks and while things are done to try and fix it like fat shaming and female equality but if deep inside people still feel those old feelings I wonder if change is really happening in society. It's almost to fast to be believable. That's where the internet becomes kind of unreliable. People say the right things and even want to believe them I suspect but people have also been programmed for so long that it can't be all 100% true.

Jason

Do people still fat shame?
That seems strange to me since so many people are over weight.
I always thought Riker looked way hotter when he got fatter.
Maybe it was the beard. There is s really big guy here at work, bigger than Riker, around, I think he looks good. He has a Riker sort of beard though......
Guys and girls always would think I was a stuck up "B" but I wasn't. Believe it or not someone that looks good can be sort of shy too. And I would have rather spent time with guys that were interested in me as a human than if they like my body and wanted to have sex. Don't sell yourself short guy.

 

[Marynator]

I'm so sorry, it's not remotely the same at all. You can feel pressure for your choices, or what you're good at, or what you're interests are, but when you're a woman your expectations and restrictions are about the nature of your being, it isn't even a little bit comparable. Yes as a man you do feel pressures, but please understand it's a completely different type altogether. As a man you're still a person, but maybe you're a person people make fun of, but still a person, as a woman you're viewed as a thing, an object, a possession. You exist for what men what you to be.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I'm so sorry, it's not remotely the same at all. You can feel pressure for your choices, or what you're good at, or what you're interests are, but when you're a woman your expectations and restrictions are about the nature of your being, it isn't even a little bit comparable. Yes as a man you do feel pressures, but please understand it's a completely different type altogether. As a man you're still a person, but maybe you're a person people make fun of, but still a person, as a woman you're viewed as a thing, an object, a possession. You exist for what men what you to be.

I think what he is sayin is similar.
People looked at me and thought stuff like
Rich bitCh, stuck up hot chick, total hot babe. Take your pick.
They didn't know me or want to know me.
I think Jason feels or sees it happen that people look at him as the fat guy nerd, computer guy in his mom's basement, slob.
Or whatever other demeaning thing they think. It's no worse if no better than what they think of me. It's still a form of objectification. They don't care or think about him as a human. They don't care if he paints and plays the oboe and loves animals either.

I mean I'm not reading Jason's mind, but I can see it that way for s person that has been overweight most of their life.

 

[Marynator]

Oh I don't doubt at all men are brutal to each other and find ways to put him down, but I still feel it's very different from institutionalized objectification of women, you know what I mean? He'll still be able to do things and be parts of real communities and his contributions are going to be valued.

Like I would've always loved to be part of the nerd gang! I don't know anything about mechanics like you do, but I know a fair amount about computers, and I do programming as part of my work, and I enjoy playing computer games. A few months ago I was trying to find new friends to play Civilization with, and I joined a community. Some people have been friendly, but I haven't really gotten any games, no one actually wants to play with me. Some people pretended, but when I wouldn't send pictures of myself in my pajamas, they got mad and dropped me. You think they'd do that to a man? Even like a nerdy guy super obese and living in his mother's basement would at least get respect, but nope because I'm a female all I'm good for is sex.

 

[Jayson1]

Do people still fat shame?
That seems strange to me since so many people are over weight.
I always thought Riker looked way hotter when he got fatter.
Maybe it was the beard. There is s really big guy here at work, bigger than Riker, around, I think he looks good. He has a Riker sort of beard though......
Guys and girls always would think I was a stuck up "B" but I wasn't. Believe it or not someone that looks good can be sort of shy too. And I would have rather spent time with guys that were interested in me as a human than if they like my body and wanted to have sex. Don't sell yourself short guy.

People don't have to fat shame because it becomes a internal issue. People or maybe it's mostly men or maybe a issue with people who don't look traditionally hot put a great deal of self-esteem in how they look. If anything women in general might be stronger on this issue than guys because at least women know that these feelings are wrong. Guys still feel like their looks actually impact their self-worth to people and are okay with that. I know it's all about confidence but it's hard to be confident when you don't know how to let go of those feelings or ever feel like society actually cares either way. Can't really talk about them because then guys see talking about that stuff as weakness. I mean I actually am okay with talking about them but even I still can't ever seem to feel the confidence to overcome them. That is what I am working on.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

Oh I don't doubt at all men are brutal to each other and find ways to put him down, but I still feel it's very different from institutionalized objectification of women, you know what I mean? He'll still be able to do things and be parts of real communities and his contributions are going to be valued.

Like I would've always loved to be part of the nerd gang! I don't know anything about mechanics like you do, but I know a fair amount about computers, and I do programming as part of my work, and I enjoy playing computer games. A few months ago I was trying to find new friends to play Civilization with, and I joined a community. Some people have been friendly, but I haven't really gotten any games, no one actually wants to play with me. Some people pretended, but when I wouldn't send pictures of myself in my pajamas, they got mad and dropped me. You think they'd do that to a man? Even like a nerdy guy super obese and living in his mother's basement would at least get respect, but nope because I'm a female all I'm good for is sex.

I agree their is a difference. To me though that is kind of what society is about. Everyone has their own pain that is different from each other but in many ways equally valid because pain is pain. I will never know what it's like to be a women or a person of color or gay but the fact that everyone sort of suffers form something is actually one of the things I find most easy to bond with people over. It's something we all have in common. To me that is where tolerance kind of starts from.


Jason

 

[Marynator]

Fatshaming is absolutely disgusting, people who do so are such insecure pathetic people, and I just can't stand how they say things like "I'm just trying to help her" or something, like yeah you're really going to help by bullying. No, you're doing it just because you feel better about your miserable life my reminding someone he or she is less than you.

 

[Tenacity]

Do people still fat shame?

People everything shame.

 

[Nakita Akita]

People don't have to fat shame because it becomes a internal issue. People or maybe it's mostly men or maybe a issue with people who don't look traditionally hot put a great deal of self-esteem in how they look. If anything women in general might be stronger on this issue than guys because at least women know that these feelings are wrong. Guys still feel like their looks actually impact their self-worth to people and are okay with that. I know it's all about confidence but it's hard to be confident when you don't know how to let go of those feelings or ever feel like society actually cares either way. Can't really talk about them because then guys see talking about that stuff as weakness. I mean I actually am okay with talking about them but even I still can't ever seem to feel the confidence to overcome them. That is what I am working on.

Jason

You sound fine to me.
I think as long as you are clean ie, clean clothes, well groomed don't smell like some sort of B.O. You might be selling yourself short.
I've dated overweight guys.
It's the person not their body that's a turn on for women.
I know the media portrays it differently but for a real woman it's the inner man we want.

As an overweight guy you might not have girls throwing themselves at you but frankly those guys that get all if the girls are usually piggish, losers.
The not so perfect guys, those are the real catch. I'll bet you are a very nice guy.
I've dated pretty much every "race" (never really sure what that means) every size and shape. Never dated a red head though.
But that's about it.
Just take things slow, meet a woman of substance not one that's looking for money or whatever girls look for now a days.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Oh I don't doubt at all men are brutal to each other and find ways to put him down, but I still feel it's very different from institutionalized objectification of women, you know what I mean? He'll still be able to do things and be parts of real communities and his contributions are going to be valued.

Like I would've always loved to be part of the nerd gang! I don't know anything about mechanics like you do, but I know a fair amount about computers, and I do programming as part of my work, and I enjoy playing computer games. A few months ago I was trying to find new friends to play Civilization with, and I joined a community. Some people have been friendly, but I haven't really gotten any games, no one actually wants to play with me. Some people pretended, but when I wouldn't send pictures of myself in my pajamas, they got mad and dropped me. You think they'd do that to a man? Even like a nerdy guy super obese and living in his mother's basement would at least get respect, but nope because I'm a female all I'm good for is sex.

On line gaming? Just use a fake persona.
Maybe be a gay man? Or just another guy?
Tell them that you are 60 years old.

 

[Nakita Akita]

People don't have to fat shame because it becomes a internal issue. People or maybe it's mostly men or maybe a issue with people who don't look traditionally hot put a great deal of self-esteem in how they look. If anything women in general might be stronger on this issue than guys because at least women know that these feelings are wrong. Guys still feel like their looks actually impact their self-worth to people and are okay with that. I know it's all about confidence but it's hard to be confident when you don't know how to let go of those feelings or ever feel like society actually cares either way. Can't really talk about them because then guys see talking about that stuff as weakness. I mean I actually am okay with talking about them but even I still can't ever seem to feel the confidence to overcome them. That is what I am working on.

Jason

I've never seen a man have an actual conversation with another man.
You can talk about sports, cars, women, movies, guns, the weather, but that's about as deep as it goes.
Sort of sad really.
You can talk to women on an actual deep level though.

 

[Jedman67]

I'm so sorry, it's not remotely the same at all. You can feel pressure for your choices, or what you're good at, or what you're interests are, but when you're a woman your expectations and restrictions are about the nature of your being, it isn't even a little bit comparable. Yes as a man you do feel pressures, but please understand it's a completely different type altogether. As a man you're still a person, but maybe you're a person people make fun of, but still a person, as a woman you're viewed as a thing, an object, a possession. You exist for what men what you to be.

Ughh. Just ugh, I hate that kind of behavior. When I was young and dating, before I met my wife, I always tried to give the women I was going out with my full attention, on them, not their bodies. It's really not hard to be a gentleman, all you have to do is stop thinking about sex
I had friends who would talk about 'how hot' this person or that person was and it infuriated me.
Now I'm trying to think about how bad it must be for the ladies...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

For some reason, I can't see the poll.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Anyway, I don't think they had sex because Troi still had a thing for Riker, and through it all he dated other women too but he still wanted Troi.
Troi may have had a tryst wit Barclay but is was nothing other than that, a minor tryst.
IF
It even happened. But I don't think it did.

 

[Butters]

Ughh. Just ugh, I hate that kind of behavior. When I was young and dating, before I met my wife, I always tried to give the women I was going out with my full attention, on them, not their bodies. It's really not hard to be a gentleman, all you have to do is stop thinking about sex
I had friends who would talk about 'how hot' this person or that person was and it infuriated me.
Now I'm trying to think about how bad it must be for the ladies...

I might be an outlier here, but back when I was dating, sex was the thing. We might not say it outright, but that what it was about, we’d skirt around it and talk about pets or whatever. But finding a compatible partner, for a night or life time, it started with a date. I never had a date with a girl with that was looking for good conversation and someone to watch movies with, they were looking for a sexual partner. And woe betide any man that didn’t remark upon their appearance after the effort they’d put in.

That’s just my experience though, but being on date with someone that didn’t seem interested in sex, I’d feel a bit crappy if it were me.

 

[Marynator]

On line gaming? Just use a fake persona.
Maybe be a gay man? Or just another guy?
Tell them that you are 60 years old.

I've seriously thought about that, but I don't like the idea of having to pretend I'm something I'm not just to be accepted. Plus my voice would totally give me away?

@Butters it's not just about dating and hooking up. It's so very difficult to get into any kind of men's social circle, and sometimes you have to or you get excluded. Sometimes men don't even want to talk to you professionally, because they feel the only conversation he should ever have with a woman should be about pursuing sex. It sounds crazy but maybe it's hard to really understand unless you've experienced it.

 

[Kor]

In online games I've tended to use a female avatar or character design to obfuscate my true identity.

Kor

 

[Butters]

I've seriously thought about that, but I don't like the idea of having to pretend I'm something I'm not just to be accepted. Plus my voice would totally give me away?

@Butters it's not just about dating and hooking up. It's so very difficult to get into any kind of men's social circle, and sometimes you have to or you get excluded. Sometimes men don't even want to talk to you professionally, because they feel the only conversation he should ever have with a woman should be about pursuing sex. It sounds crazy but maybe it's hard to really understand unless you've experienced it.

I can’t answer to your experiences because I’m not a women with something about them, and I don’t move in circles where women would feel uncomfortable, but these places do exist where you won’t be hit on. It maybe a cultural thing too. In the uk, dignity in the work place is taken very importantly. That’s not to say inappropriate behaviour doesn’t happen, but I haven’t seen it for a long time.

 

[Marynator]

You sometimes might not notice what's going on really when you're not experiencing it, or it's like so common you don't realize what a problem it is for people. Like such a big part of movements like MeToo and TimesUp is about helping men open their eyes to what their peers are doing to women, you know what I mean? Men have both intentionally and unintentionally turned a blind eye to what's going on for so long now, like I'm saying though for many men it's not on purpose, just an effect because of not sharing a perspective.

I was doing some googling and from what I'm reading it's really a huge problem in the United Kingdom, a UN human rights expert said it's worse than any other country she's seen. I'm linking this article I read, but I'd so highly recommend googling things like "hidden sexism in my workplace" and tips for how you as a man can help identify and fix things.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/w...sm-more-pervasive-than-any-other-country.html

My main point really is just because you're not noticing it doesn't mean it's not happening, right?

Oh and you'd be surprised where you get hit on, lol. Like really pretty much any where at any time.

 

[Jedman67]

I might be an outlier here, but back when I was dating, sex was the thing. We might not say it outright, but that what it was about, we’d skirt around it and talk about pets or whatever. But finding a compatible partner, for a night or life time, it started with a date. I never had a date with a girl with that was looking for good conversation and someone to watch movies with, they were looking for a sexual partner. And woe betide any man that didn’t remark upon their appearance after the effort they’d put in.

That’s just my experience though, but being on date with someone that didn’t seem interested in sex, I’d feel a bit crappy if it were me.

So fine, but I'm probably an outlier here due to my being religious and such, but the idea of dating (in my circles) was to find a marriage partner, not a one night stand or girlfriend. Of course sex is an important part of marriage, but the idea was to find someone you like and value as a person first, not their sexual attractiveness.
And yeah, of course if you're dating someone you should compliment them on the effort they put into it, but that could be done tastefully without being vulgar.