Spoilers Timeless Season 2 - SPOILERS

[Aragorn]

you take her out at some other point (drive by shooting etc) then there's an investigation and who knows what might get exposed (law of unintended consequences). Christopher gets shot while hinchley tries to kill Reagan and it goes down as part of the failed assassination attempt and nobody looks any further.

Considering Plan B was to just drive up to her house and shoot her, you've giving these writers way too much credit.

Also, how would this be any different than any other unsolved murder? Only this time the killer gets away from the crime by traveling through time.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, who knew that Agent Christopher was a babe?

This was a fun episode, although I have a hard time with the concept that anybody could actually romanticize 80s fashion. But I do like that the other characters are getting their chance to time travel, and seeing Lucy and Jiya as Cagney and Lacey, lesbian undercover detectives ("usually as prostitutes") cracked me up. And back in the present, Flynn even got a character-building moment, convincing Christopher to be with her family. And there were a couple of surprises for Wyatt-- possibly not good ones.

The twists and turns of time travel and altered timelines can be weird. When the group left on their trip, they left behind an Agent Christopher who had never known them before the time machine project. When they came back, they were greeted by an Agent Christopher who had been carrying this secret knowledge for over 35 years and who had made each life decision much more deliberately-- but who was also limited by the vast quantity of things she didn't know. There was quite a change in her demeanor after the trip. Is this because of the relief of no longer having to keep this secret, or is it because this altered life, including a non-estranged mother, has made her literally a new person?

 

[Jayson1]

Well, who knew that Agent Christopher was a babe?

This was a fun episode, although I have a hard time with the concept that anybody could actually romanticize 80s fashion. But I do like that the other characters are getting their chance to time travel, and seeing Lucy and Jiya as Cagney and Lacey, lesbian undercover detectives ("usually as prostitutes") cracked me up. And back in the present, Flynn even got a character-building moment, convincing Christopher to be with her family. And there were a couple of surprises for Wyatt-- possibly not good ones.

The twists and turns of time travel and altered timelines can be weird. When the group left on their trip, they left behind an Agent Christopher who had never known them before the time machine project. When they came back, they were greeted by an Agent Christopher who had been carrying this secret knowledge for over 35 years and who had made each life decision much more deliberately-- but who was also limited by the vast quantity of things she didn't know. There was quite a change in her demeanor after the trip. Is this because of the relief of no longer having to keep this secret, or is it because this altered life, including a non-estranged mother, has made her literally a new person?

Was a babe? I think she is pretty hot both young and old. Me I liked the episode. Made me wonder about the laptop. DId they leave it with Agent Christopher when they returned to their time? How long and what use could someone get out of a modern laptop in the early 80's? Not really tech savy so i'm not sure. Would she be able to do anything other than look at pictures of her future children until the machine runs out of power or simply starts to break down? Also I wonder if she had info on her future wife? That must have made for some awkward dating at first. How do you tell the girl you just meet that she is destined to be your wife? Also I forget how she had her children. You basically have to manipulate everyone in your life that you love so the future will happen they way it does.

Jason

 

[Christopher]

Made me wonder about the laptop. DId they leave it with Agent Christopher when they returned to their time?

No, just the thumb drive. They specifically said that she needed to wait decades for the invention of the technology that would let her access it.

 

[Jayson1]

No, just the thumb drive. They specifically said that she needed to wait decades for the invention of the technology that would let her access it.

Would a thumb drive last that long and still be usable? Not sure what year that would be. I guess in the 2000's at some point. Once she meets her wife and gets her children I wonder how that would effect them. Would she even tell them the truth about all this future info she once was given.

Jason

 

[Christopher]

Would a thumb drive last that long and still be usable?

Probably not, but then, time travel can't exist either. Nothing on this show makes any sense, so why should this?

 

[Photoman15]

If you kept the thumb drive in a good place, it should last.
If I were Rittenhouse, though. I would procure Hinckley's original gun and send that back with the sleeper to use it to take out Christopher. This way, Hinckley would be blamed for it.

 

[Christopher]

If I were Rittenhouse, though. I would procure Hinckley's original gun and send that back with the sleeper to use it to take out Christopher. This way, Hinckley would be blamed for it.

I presume the reason they needed a sleeper in the Secret Service was so that they could pretend her death was a friendly-fire accident in the defense of the President. If they'd used Hinckley's gun, they wouldn't have needed a sleeper.

 

[Jayson1]

Does it make sense to have only one sleeper agent? You would think you would need a team to kind of plan things out to make sure the plan works and also provide backup in case one person isn't up to the task or has a untimely accident. The race car driver could have been killed in any number of races by sheer accident and then what would they have?

Jason

 

[Aragorn]

Most of the sleeper agent plots have been poorly though out. Why go through such an elaborate setup that requires 12 years to kill Christopher when Plan B was to just drive up to her house and shoot her?

 

[Christopher]

The whole sleeper angle feels like a hastily conceived attempt to do something different this season. But they're already doing something different. In the first season, Rittenhouse was already deeply ensconced in every era of American history and every one of its institutions, and Flynn was the one trying to change history to eliminate them. In the season finale, either the alterations to history or arbitrary writer fiat changed things so that Rittenhouse was a small enough conspiracy to be driven out of the halls of power by the legitimate authorities, and now Rittenhouse is out of power and trying to change history to its own benefit, the diametric opposite of season 1's dynamic. Sure, it still plays out much the same for the team, since they're trying to prevent major disruptions to history regardless of who's behind them. But then, the sleeper angle doesn't really change that either. So it's just a token addition.

Well, mostly. The revelation that the sleepers aren't necesarily willing conspirators opens up a new avenue, and perhaps a new approach to dealing with them by trying to engage and turn them rather than just shooting them. But that remains to be seen. And it's a dynamic they've already set in motion with Emma anyway, so they didn't need the sleepers for it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Most of the sleeper agent plots have been poorly though out. Why go through such an elaborate setup that requires 12 years to kill Christopher when Plan B was to just drive up to her house and shoot her?

The sleeper agents were put in place, BEFORE Lucy's grampy thought up his master plan.

 

[Christopher]

Okay, what's the deal with Susanna Thompson playing lead characters' mothers who get killed off after two seasons? First Arrow, now this.

Anyway, Emma's move there was totally unexpected. I thought she was going to switch sides and help the heroes against Rittenhouse. Instead she's staged a coup.

And the fact that WWI granddad Rittenhouse boss guy went down like such a chump just underlines what a weak bad guy he's been, never really emerging from blandness. And whatever happened to that supposedly amazing mural depicting all of Ritt's master plan? It was set up as if it were some major element of the season arc, and then it was never mentioned again. I complained at the time that it felt like a hollow gesture pretending to be important, and it was suggested that its importance would probably become clearer in retrospect. And it turned out to be just as hollow as I thought.

I wasn't crazy about how the last hour went down, all that gunplay and killing and tragedy and grief and bitterness. And I couldn't believe they'd kill off Rufus. He's the heart of the show in more ways than one, and I was thinking that I wouldn't want it to be renewed without him. But then that last twist happened -- I guess I should've seen something like it coming. So... future selves? Or alternate timeline?

 

[E-DUB]

That was sort of foreshadowed by Flynn's statement that he got the journal from future Lucy, implying that the old "you can't go where you already are" thing would in, er, time be circumvented.

 

[Mr Awe]

Timeless is a guilty pleasure for me. I like history and a like time travel. Timeless is not the most well though out series, but I enjoy it nonetheless. I hope it gets renewed.

During the first hour with the Civil War plot, I thought the show finally came up with a good use for a sleeper agent. The Colonel (IIRC) was able to build up a career beforehand so he could reasonably be in position of power at the right time and the right place. It still cracks me up that all of these agents always seemed shocked when our time team shows up. Haven't they been given the memo that there will be people coming for them? I also think some sort of sealed order system would be good here. Don't open your orders until such and such date to find out your mission. That way Rittenhouse doesn't have to send the Mothership and tip off the Time Team. I suppose the fact that the sleeper agents are not there totally voluntarily means they can't be trusted completely. At any rate, the story was good. Tubman was great. Enjoyable.

I enjoyed the second hour but not quite as much. It was revealed what a lame-o villain the 1918 guy was. He never really seemed to know what was going on. His mural was pointless. And, really, there's no way that guy who is 100 years out of date was going to be able to guide Rittenhouse forward. Jiya sending a message saying "I'm here but don't come" was silly. Really, not come. Yeah, that'll work! I guess they went the totally most obvious unsubtle approach with Jessica. Yeah, she's a Rittenhouse agent. I was hoping they were setting up something a little more interesting, but alas no. With the coup, we have yet another reimaging of Rittenhouse. They just can't seem to make it an interesting organization.

I figured there'd be visitors from the future given the mention of the inability to travel in their own timelines. We knew that this ability will exist in the future because that's how Flynn got Lucy's diary. It was only a matter of time before that came into play. So, they'll go back and save Rufus. Will they save Lucy's Mom? They could theoretically snag her as she's dying and get her to a modern (future?) medicine and save her and possibly convince her to switch sides.

While I figured something like this was going to happen, I was hoping that once Rufus died, they'd just leave him dead. If they do save him (if they're renewed), it really cheapens things. No one truly ever dies. I suppose they could put some limitation on the ability but it feels cheap.

Still, I want Rufus back!

 

[Timewalker]

Isn't it handy that they just happened to have someone who could read Klingon?

 

[Christopher]

That was sort of foreshadowed by Flynn's statement that he got the journal from future Lucy, implying that the old "you can't go where you already are" thing would in, er, time be circumvented.

Yeah, but I didn't expect it to be so soon.

And how the heck did Jiya know her photo would be picked by the editors of that particular history book decades later? I'd assume she arranged to take the place of the woman who was originally in the photo, but that doesn't guarantee that the editors of the later book would still pick her photo in its place, depending on their parameters for selecting the original photo.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Timeless is a guilty pleasure for me. I like history and a like time travel. Timeless is not the most well though out series, but I enjoy it nonetheless. I hope it gets renewed.

Same here. I do enjoy the show and want to keep watching.

It was revealed what a lame-o villain the 1918 guy was. He never really seemed to know what was going on. His mural was pointless. And, really, there's no way that guy who is 100 years out of date was going to be able to guide Rittenhouse forward.

Yeah, Rittenhouse has been a very weak villain organization. The mural was obviously meant to make us think that the 1918 guy had this grand master plan for changing history so that we would fear Rittenhouse but it turned out to be nothing. At the end of the day, Rittenhouse was not some super powerful organization controlling history. Rather, it was basically just Emma, Lucy's mom and the 1918 guy scheming to change a few points in history which our heroes of course thwarted.

With the coup, we have yet another reimaging of Rittenhouse. They just can't seem to make it an interesting organization.

My guess is that Emma and Jessica will simply change Rittenhouse's ultimate goal a little bit. We know from the episode, "Ms sherlock holmes", that Emma supports the women's rights movement. So Emma and Jessica will probably just remove the misogynist parts of Rittenhouse plans, maybe make the ultimate goal of Rittenhouse a little less fascist but keep other parts. Or maybe Emma and Jessica will simply use Rittenhouse to try to fulfill their own personal goals and ditch the goal of creating a fascist future completely? Sadly, I don't have much hope that the new Rittenhouse will be any scarier than the old one. The format of the show will stay the same: Rittenhouse tries to change history and our heroes stop them. The "reasons" for changing history will change but that's about it.

 

[Christopher]

At the end of the day, Rittenhouse was not some super powerful organization controlling history. Rather, it was basically just Emma, Lucy's mom and the 1918 guy scheming to change a few points in history which our heroes of course thwarted.

Well, the show completely reversed formats between seasons 1 and 2. Originally, Rittenhouse was a centuries-old conspiracy that was already inextricably intertwined with every facet of American history and society, which is why the only way Flynn could see to get rid of them was to erase the United States from history altogether. So you had the interestingly multilayered dilemma of the heroes fighting to preserve a history that maybe they were wrong to preserve, because it meant helping the real enemy remain powerful. But then the first-season finale retconned things (or else the time travelers changed things) so that Ritt. was smaller and less pervasive and easier to remove from power. Which meant that in the second season, it was Ritt. trying to change US history and the heroes trying to stop them, so that ambiguity of the first-season premise was lost. I mean, I'm no fan of stories about huge ancient conspiracies, but the more simplistic good-vs.-evil premise did lose something in comparison to the first season's "Which side should we really be on?" nuances.

And nuance is one thing Emma does not possess, as we saw here. She's just blam, blam, kill everyone who gets in her way. It's hard to imagine what her agenda is, beyond just personal power. So it's hard to see where a third season would go.

By the way, if Ritt. was no longer a huge overarching present-day conspiracy in season 2, just an insurgent group planting sleeper agents in the past, then why did the team have to hide out in that dingy bunker all season? Of course, the real-world reason was because they moved to Vancouver and had less money to spend on sets, and the rationale was that they were hiding from Ritt. assassins and the like, but that didn't really mesh well with the portrayal of Ritt. in season 2.

 

[Mr Awe]

Yeah, but I didn't expect it to be so soon.

Nah, it was pretty obvious they were building up to that with the future versions of themselves. Flynn described in more detail his encounter with future Lucy. It was time for that.