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Is Nu-Who Really a "Kelvin" Timeline?

so in the post you cite all these studies and such on representation.. and how there is inequality, and yet when a female lead is chosen, the notion that this is somehow "justice" for a precieved inadequate parity is also presented.
How is this "perceived" inadequate parity? If 50% of the population has two thirds of the representation that seems pretty objectively inadequate to me.

What is funny is how it is stated that if a female lead or any other lead then a white male is chosen, then using the stats and so on you feel justified in this belief. I think what perplexes me is the ignorance of historical context, and the idea that it shouldn't matter who is chosen, except when it's a white male, then it's somehow bad.. In any other way casting is done, it is considered good.. regardless of the person's talent or ability.
The problem with this is that you never have the one perfect actor, because you can't really objectively measure acting. I highly doubt that an underavarage actor of an underrepresented group would be hired instead of an overaverage actor from an overrepresented group, but most often you have good actors of all groups and can chose from them so that the quality of the product isn't affected.


Parity is great, and surely needed in some instances
Agreed!

We only want a certain race, color, or gender, or political POV.
Disagreed! There is a difference between wanting equal representation and wanting all of the representation.

that seems very much like racism does it not?? Justifications for it aside.. because they don't matter.

on the fundamental level what you advocate for is IMHO wrong. We should look at all people in terms of their capability and not their gender, race, orientation, and political leanings. Flipping that is what has led to historical acts of violence and scape goating a particular group, Like the Democratic Party did in the 60s-70s against Black People and inventing the KKK to keep them from voting. I would think someone with the time to research and provide all those stats would also know the difference and thru the lense of history see the folly of such ideology.
Would you mind elaborating on this comparison? I don't really have the time to research whole lot and I'm German, so my knowledge in American history is mostly confined to its beginnings as British colonies, its involvement in WWI and WWII, as well as some financial in-between stuff and everything that Hamilton: An American Musical thought me, but that's really it.

IN FACT I would say that the modern flipping of making gender and race first as well as orientation, can still lead to violence against one group in particular, which you eloquently mock with your funny little white male pic.
I have a hard time imagining how exactly that would work. I mean, would women decide that now that they have half of the roles in movies they will proceed to attack men on the street? I also don't think that the picture Locutus posted is mocking white men; it seems to me like it is mocking the fact that white men are overrepresented.

Nice to see that there's still an unprotected class of citizen out there, and you enjoy making light of the circumstance because you use history to say it should matter.

As if there's a justification to take from one group and give to another, which is just creating another group with a grievance, and the cycle continues.
The group's grievances would be unjustified as they had unjustly more in the first place.

Tho I am perplexed why someone would admit to being one or the other, left or right, I mean follow the leader can be fun sometimes, because it doesn't require independent thought or critical thinking.
This doesn't make any sense. For example in Germany we have six parties that are currently in the parliament (seven if you count the CSU but who would want to do that...) and three of them are on the left, yet all are very different and don't "follow the leader", hell the literal leftist party, imaginatively called "Die Linke" (The Left) just saw severe disagreements between the party leader and parliamentary group leader, so the notion that anyone who vaguely associates with one political direction is a brainless follower is ridiculous.
 
This doesn't make any sense. For example in Germany we have six parties that are currently in the parliament (seven if you count the CSU but who would want to do that...) and three of them are on the left, yet all are very different and don't "follow the leader", hell the literal leftist party, imaginatively called "Die Linke" (The Left) just saw severe disagreements between the party leader and parliamentary group leader, so the notion that anyone who vaguely associates with one political direction is a brainless follower is ridiculous.

Jinn, I will come back to the other questions and debate with you later, as I am about to go to work. However, I have to respond to this last line here.. given your country's history, do you not see the irony in your reply to my statement about blindly following one ideological slant?? Groups that are separate in their platforms but still believe the same ideological slant, just disagree on policy is really to me, the same group,and all about Political Correctness and virtue signaling. I think Merkel has done a dis-service with Mass immigrant migration and cultural clashes that have resulted from it, not to mention the Middle Eastern view of women is like something out of the Middle ages, forget the perceived inadequacies of Western Nations, which are by far more progressive and liberating for females then any of the people your country has recently brought in. No wonder assaults on women are up, tho the government has tried their best to keep a lid on it, and has admitted such when called out.
 
Jinn, I will come back to the other questions and debate with you later, as I am about to go to work. However, I have to respond to this last line here.. given your country's history, do you not see the irony in your reply to my statement about blindly following one ideological slant?? Groups that are separate in their platforms but still believe the same ideological slant, just disagree on policy is really to me, the same group,and all about Political Correctness and virtue signaling.
I can see how a strictly left/right view of parties can lead to this impression of one ideological slant, but there is much more nuance, for example the SPD, the social democrat party, is pretty financially conservative, for example they introduced version of unemployement aide that is less... Let's say "consumer" friendly and, in the long term, stigmatized unemployed people. On the other side they are also responsible that we now have minuímum wages, which proved to be a more liberal act, even though the system can be exploited by the some employers. On the other side of the political spectrum of our parliament, the CDU and the CSU (Markel's party and basically the independant Bavarian branch of her party) have had internal fights about islam in the last couple of weeks. And I haven't even mentioned Germany's 13% alt right party, the AfD, that prominently features a guy who wants to pull a one-eighty on German Culture of Remembrance on the Nazi regime... I have a strong dislike for the CDU, but it's hardly part of the same ideological slant as the AfD.

And if I may present one final argument on why the SPD, the German Green party and Die Linke aren't part of the same ideological slant, consider this: In the 2013 elections the SPD got 193 seats, Die Linke got 64 seats and the Green Party got 63 seats in the parliament, out of 631 seats. The three generally leftist parties got 320 seats which is more than half the seats and enough to form a goverment. So, why wasn't Peer Steinbrück, chancelor candidate of the SPD, our chancelor for the past four years? Well, the SPD elected to not even engage in coalition talks with Die Linke and instead formed a coalition with the CDU.

In the end the reason why people with similar (similar, not identitcal) believes come together in organised parties is that it is easier to reach any goal. If everyone with a vague interest in politics would run for chancelor we would probably end up with a ton of less than one percenters, no goverment would be formed and nothing would be achieved.

I think Merkel has done a dis-service with Mass immigrant migration
First, let me make one thing clear. I don't like Merkel. She is conservative, she is neo-liberal, she proved to be extremely indifferent to energy politics in a way that was clearly designed to make her more popular and she barely cares about social issues, for example, before the last election she made it possible for the parliament to vote over gay marriage rights, then she personally voted against it, which made her both personally attractive to conservative voters for voting against it, but also to liberal voters since she made gay marriage possible. Furthermore this took away the one of the already few reasons to vote for the Green party.

That being said, the only time I even vaguely agreed with Merkel was probably her decision to open the Balkan route. I say vaguely for a few reasons: Merkel didn't have a whole lot of agency with her initial decision, the refugees were being let through Hungary by its head of state, Germany and Austria were forced to do something and taking in refugees was pretty much the only option left. The other thing is that the crisis didn't come out of nowhere. The reason it felt like that for Germany is that we've been hiding behind the Dublin III regulation, which required refugees to ask for asylum in the country they first arrived in. Of course, due to its position on the European continent, that was almost never Germany, so all the refugees for the past years were stuck in the already financially unstable countries like Greece and Italy. Once they couldn't bear the load that Germany, one of the most financially stable coutnries in the EU, refused to help them with, they started letting immigrants through, so Germany was forced to act. Merkel doesn't care about the immigrants, she could have helped them since IMO 2012, or at least 2015, but she didn't until the very last minute which proved to be a bad decision for everyone involved.

Long story short, Merkel can be blamed for a lot of things, but she is not responsible for mass immigration.

and cultural clashes that have resulted from it, not to mention the Middle Eastern view of women is like something out of the Middle ages
I won't deny that there are immigrants who have a backwards attitude towards women, but keep in mind that rape in marriage was legal in German until 1997 and now, just twenty years later, we are a lot more progressive on social issues regarding gender and sex. My point is that people can change and that our points are convincing enough to do so.

forget the perceived inadequacies of Western Nations, which are by far more progressive and liberating for females then any of the people your country has recently brought in. No wonder assaults on women are up, tho the government has tried their best to keep a lid on it, and has admitted such when called out.
One thing that has to be kept in mind is that half of the asylumseekers that came to Germany in 2016 and 2017 are less 21 years old or younger and most of them are male. In 2016 9% of the offences against sexual self-determination involved at least one migrant as perpetrator. According to the PKS, in the entirety of 2016 out of 100,000 such offences 8279 were caused by males under the age of 21, 677 by females under the age of 21 and 8956 by perpetrators where the gender couldn't be determined. So, 8.279% were commited by males under the age of 21, 0.00677% by females under the age of 21 and 8.956% by those of indeterminate gender.

My point is that higher numbers of rape seem to come from a higher number of young, male people, not per se more people from the Middle East.
 
I have a hard time imagining how exactly that would work. I mean, would women decide that now that they have half of the roles in movies they will proceed to attack men on the street? I also don't think that the picture Locutus posted is mocking white men; it seems to me like it is mocking the fact that white men are overrepresented.
What I feel when he says this is like violence against minorities who get representation, because angry white men are angry. Like you see violence happening against homosexuals who get rights as retribution, and against transgender people, and women, and racial minorities. If he's saying that I feel it's very abhorrent, that we shouldn't give opportunities to underrepresented classes because angry white men might hurt them if you do. The other possibility like you said just makes absolutely no sense to me because it's not something that's ever happened and is just totally made up.
 
What I feel when he says this is like violence against minorities who get representation, because angry white men are angry. Like you see violence happening against homosexuals who get rights as retribution, and against transgender people, and women, and racial minorities. If he's saying that I feel it's very abhorrent, that we shouldn't give opportunities to underrepresented classes because angry white men might hurt them if you do. The other possibility like you said just makes absolutely no sense to me because it's not something that's ever happened and is just totally made up.

Give rights and opportunity to all. One of those rights is to be safe from violence. That applies for all. Those are the rights that most developed civilisations adhere to.
Violence is wrong, simple as.
 
What I feel when he says this is like violence against minorities who get representation, because angry white men are angry. Like you see violence happening against homosexuals who get rights as retribution, and against transgender people, and women, and racial minorities. If he's saying that I feel it's very abhorrent, that we shouldn't give opportunities to underrepresented classes because angry white men might hurt them if you do. The other possibility like you said just makes absolutely no sense to me because it's not something that's ever happened and is just totally made up.
I thought that too for a moment but the specific phrasing "modern flipping of making gender and race first as well as orientation, can still lead to violence against one group in particular, which you eloquently mock with your funny little white male pic" makes it clear to me that he is referring to anti-white-male-violence.
 
I thought that too for a moment but the specific phrasing "modern flipping of making gender and race first as well as orientation, can still lead to violence against one group in particular, which you eloquently mock with your funny little white male pic" makes it clear to me that he is referring to anti-white-male-violence.
Okay, if that's what he's saying I feel totally confused, because like that doesn't happen? And it sort of goes with that whole thing about white male fear, "We don't want you to have power because I'm afraid you'll start treating us how we've always treated you."
 
Okay, if that's what he's saying I feel totally confused, because like that doesn't happen? And it sort of goes with that whole thing about white male fear, "We don't want you to have power because I'm afraid you'll start treating us how we've always treated you."

I just have one question.... Do you actually believe this stuff??
There's always some nefarious evil Male around every corner.. Especially if they be white.. The conspiracy of Male domination? a fact of Nature and natural selection and development over hundreds of thousands of years, is an oppressive conspiracy? Not a natural development that yes, seems backwards by todays standards, but yet is somehow a devious sin of feminine slavery that all modern men must now suffer and attone for?? I am just trying to clarify your position here..

( I am of course referring to your posts a few pages back and your snide alarmist comments about my statement. Very nice to see a character paint job so eloquent and smoothly executed like a pro.)

so is this what you actually believe??:ack:
 
Oh honey, where to begin?

You said you believe there'd be violence when white men are replaced as our dominant group and need to share representation. Why do you think that? You also basically said we shouldn't take away white male privilege because white men would wine and cry about losing your power and dominance, and somehow that's just as bad as grievances of historically oppressed groups. So how aren't you already proving my point?

And wow, like just ... wow. Domination of women by men is natural development? No, just ... no dear. Do you also feel European enslavement of Africans was a natural development because they were stronger? Yes you're physically stronger than women, that doesn't give you any claim to a natural right to dominate us. There's no conspiracy, it's simply a history of male domination because you'e stronger and you could do it so you did. No conspiracy at all, only a fact. Your comments, that male domination and oppression of women as being "natural" is disturbingly revealing about your character, and you may really want to take some time to rethink your general outlook on life. At best your comments are extremely misogynistic. There's nothing "natural" about men using your superior strength to force women into being a subservient class of person (when men even allowed us to even be viewed as people and not your property), it's a choice act of evil. You seriously believe historical enslavement of women is not a devious sin? YOU seriously believe what you're saying?

Suffer? Are you kidding me? Suffer because you're losing your privilege status? Suffer because you're going to have to share power? If you really think that's suffering, oh honey you're in for a world of misery. Only men who are upset they're not going to be a privileged class are going to suffer though, if you value equality and respect other people you're going to be just fine.
 
That's the first time I've ever seen someone use Darwinism to justify male abuse of women. I've never been so disgusted.

Oh definitely not just Americans though, lol. :)

Funnily enough despite being published in the field of evolutionary psychology and specifcally how selection pressures would have impinged on social cognition I fail to see how such an argument could possibly work even in principle.

"Darwinism" (and frankly there really is no coherent school of thought which deserves that label; the idea is smoke and mirrors in the sense it is typically used) can and should have nothing more to say on ethics than does the theory of gravity. It is about facts and the scientific process which underlies our investigation of them within a series of related subsets of human knowledge. It has no place being used as a philosophical model to justify human behaviour. We have seen from history where that fallacy leads more than once and it has achieved nothing beyond tarring the word by association with the clearest examples of human evil we have ever documented or observed.

That certain behaviour patterns may or may not have an evolutionary basis is not a value judgement, it has no bearing on their moral or ethical "rightness" any more than capital punishment is justified by the gravity which pulls the body into the noose or the guillotine blade down onto the neck. If there is one thing we can be sure of it is that evolution has given us either the faculty and sense of free will along with the capacity to reason morally on our own terms. On that basis we have by extension the capacity to either to move beyond purely instinctive behaviour on any level of abstraction or at least act thus so convincingly as to deceive ourselves.

In either case those evolved instincts are not our masters, nor are they a collective defence when prosecuted in the wider court of judgement by history. On the contrary understanding those processes should allow us to be that little bit freer, to move beyond them by opening our eyes to the worst they can bring out in us.

We cannot ever justify abuse of anyone on the basis of Darwinism, nor should we accept any argument which can be reasonably characterised as thus (even in cases where that is not the claimed intent). Sexism and misogyny have no place in our society and the idea that scientific knowledge and enlightenment should ever be misappropriated to legitimise such a position is as close to inviting Godwin as can be reasonably imagined.
 
Funnily enough despite being published in the field of evolutionary psychology and specifcally how selection pressures would have impinged on social cognition I fail to see how such an argument could possibly work even in principle.

"Darwinism" (and frankly there really is no coherent school of thought which deserves that label; the idea is smoke and mirrors in the sense it is typically used) can and should have nothing more to say on ethics than does the theory of gravity. It is about facts and the scientific process which underlies our investigation of them within a series of related subsets of human knowledge. It has no place being used as a philosophical model to justify human behaviour. We have seen from history where that fallacy leads more than once and it has achieved nothing beyond tarring the word by association with the clearest examples of human evil we have ever documented or observed.

That certain behaviour patterns may or may not have an evolutionary basis is not a value judgement, it has no bearing on their moral or ethical "rightness" any more than capital punishment is justified by the gravity which pulls the body into the noose or the guillotine blade down onto the neck. If there is one thing we can be sure of it is that evolution has given us either the faculty and sense of free will along with the capacity to reason morally on our own terms. On that basis we have by extension the capacity to either to move beyond purely instinctive behaviour on any level of abstraction or at least act thus so convincingly as to deceive ourselves.

In either case those evolved instincts are not our masters, nor are they a collective defence when prosecuted in the wider court of judgement by history. On the contrary understanding those processes should allow us to be that little bit freer, to move beyond them by opening our eyes to the worst they can bring out in us.

We cannot ever justify abuse of anyone on the basis of Darwinism, nor should we accept any argument which can be reasonably characterised as thus (even in cases where that is not the claimed intent). Sexism and misogyny have no place in our society and the idea that scientific knowledge and enlightenment should ever be misappropriated to legitimise such a position is as close to inviting Godwin as can be reasonably imagined.
^This, so much this! Screw the naturalistic fallacy!
 
Oh honey, where to begin?

You said you believe there'd be violence when white men are replaced as our dominant group and need to share representation. Why do you think that? You also basically said we shouldn't take away white male privilege because white men would wine and cry about losing your power and dominance, and somehow that's just as bad as grievances of historically oppressed groups. So how aren't you already proving my point?

And wow, like just ... wow. Domination of women by men is natural development? No, just ... no dear. Do you also feel European enslavement of Africans was a natural development because they were stronger? Yes you're physically stronger than women, that doesn't give you any claim to a natural right to dominate us. There's no conspiracy, it's simply a history of male domination because you'e stronger and you could do it so you did. No conspiracy at all, only a fact. Your comments, that male domination and oppression of women as being "natural" is disturbingly revealing about your character, and you may really want to take some time to rethink your general outlook on life. At best your comments are extremely misogynistic. There's nothing "natural" about men using your superior strength to force women into being a subservient class of person (when men even allowed us to even be viewed as people and not your property), it's a choice act of evil. You seriously believe historical enslavement of women is not a devious sin? YOU seriously believe what you're saying?

Suffer? Are you kidding me? Suffer because you're losing your privilege status? Suffer because you're going to have to share power? If you really think that's suffering, oh honey you're in for a world of misery. Only men who are upset they're not going to be a privileged class are going to suffer though, if you value equality and respect other people you're going to be just fine.

I wish I could like this more than once.
 
I just have one question.... Do you actually believe this stuff??
There's always some nefarious evil Male around every corner.. Especially if they be white.. The conspiracy of Male domination? a fact of Nature and natural selection and development over hundreds of thousands of years, is an oppressive conspiracy? Not a natural development that yes, seems backwards by todays standards, but yet is somehow a devious sin of feminine slavery that all modern men must now suffer and attone for?? I am just trying to clarify your position here..

( I am of course referring to your posts a few pages back and your snide alarmist comments about my statement. Very nice to see a character paint job so eloquent and smoothly executed like a pro.)

so is this what you actually believe??:ack:
The reason Men have Armies and fight wars started for protection of the women and children.
How is that NOT ultimate power? Moan and whine, men like you, in all honesty, are born and spend
the rest of your life trying to get back in. I WILL NEVER hit any women, even in self-defense. period.
I feel sorry for you, Mr. IQ, must have been in the same testing group as Trump, the highest ever measured.
 
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The reason Men have Armies and fight wars started for protection of the women and children.
How is that NOT ultimate power? Moan and whine, men like you ,in all honesty, are born and spend
the rest of your life trying to get back in. I WILL never hit a women, even in self-defense. period.
I feel sorry for you, Mr. IQ, must have been in the same testing group as Trump, the highest ever measured.

Wow. Such visciousness. No wonder people tune out "activists" and "grevience peddlers" like some here. they are always hyper politically motivated and over the top about EVERYTHING... Get over it. Get a life.
 
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