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Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie.


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^ The only thing TLJ subverted is overzealous fans' expectations... the vast majority of which were never going to be met in the first place.

The fact of the matter is this: Rian Johnson took what Abrams gave him and ran with it, and succeeded in making a phenomenal Star Wars film without attaching any agenda to it whatsoever.
 
^ The only thing TLJ subverted is overzealous fans' expectations... the vast majority of which were never going to be met in the first place.

The fact of the matter is this: Rian Johnson took what Abrams gave him and ran with it, and succeeded in making a phenomenal Star Wars film without attaching any agenda to it whatsoever.

I think your last statement is based on opinion, there is an agenda, and Kathleen Kennedy wears it on her T-shirts..the writing and casting also reflect that. Sorry to burst your bubble but it's "ACTUAL FACT".
 
^ Let me clarify what I meant by using the word "agenda":
In making The Force Awakens, both J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan were actively trying to recreate the 'feelings' that they had personally experienced after seeing the original Star Wars in 1977... which is why TFA so deliberately recreates ANH's biggest setpieces and looks so similar to that film in the way it's cut together.

By contrast, Rian Johnson simply took what Abrams and Kasdan did, narratively, with TFA and told the story he wanted to tell. He didn't attach any ulterior motives to that story or the way he tried to tell it.
 
^ The only thing TLJ subverted is overzealous fans' expectations... the vast majority of which were never going to be met in the first place.

The fact of the matter is this: Rian Johnson took what Abrams gave him and ran with it, and succeeded in making a phenomenal Star Wars film without attaching any agenda to it whatsoever.

Agreed. I was expecting more of the same (pointless callbacks, blatant plot do-over, etc) but was pleasantly surprised at the time and enjoyed most of it. I'll be watching it again next week.

The only conscious agenda I recall was it was loosely copying the format of TESB (darker, Rey finding herself, rebels in trouble). Rian subverting so much was nicely done.

Benicio Del Toro stole the show at the casino...

Ren got rid of the Gonzo Muppet mask helmet. Admittedly, trying to outdo Vader's costume would be a tall order. I did not expect Snoke to say what he had regarding the helmet.

Okay, Snoke got killed off a little too quickly and without any depth. The Emperor from ROTJ had some decent dialogue. Snoke got a retread of some of that, but it all felt like filler or padding the movie. It's the only scene that had me pausing for thought. On the plus side, it opens a big opportunity for Ren to take over. I still hope he can convince Rey to join him, though that's just a fanboy dream. Later trilogies will probably do it at some point, there are many directions the saga can take, and needs to in order to remain properly fresh (let's never see another carbon copied debacle like VII again, which worked solely because of characters and their interaction... even Han breaks the fourth wall, which is THE moment the movie managed to lose the remainder of the plot's credibility.)

And the one thing about TLJ that really works is how it's opened up the franchise than more than just special people having meddling chrlorines or whatever to make them "Force-sensitive".

Loved the porgs, especially Chewie in earning his nickname there by eating one for breakfast but the rest of them forgive him later on. Far better than the Viet Cong-inspired Ewoks ever were.

And there's nothing sinister or insipid or PC about Rose's "fighting for what you love" or whatever. Shakespeare even went down that road too, though human evolution due to the inevitability of linear causality being less developed back then made some interesting observations, nor would Shakespeare have ever fathomed events like "The Sadie Hawkins Dance" since he preferred to suggest how women were "not made to woo" (which has been proven to be nonsense and everybody knows it.) For more about Shakespeare and his plays like "A Midsummer's Night's Dream", your local library has gobs on him and his plays. Anyhoo, back to the original topic since squirrels have nothing on me, Rose is largely lackluster as a character, but that one line did stick.

But squirreling back to human evolution, I can't believe movie theaters had to put up signs saying there was no technical fault with the sound system. Were audiences thinking there was an audio problem? The silent explosion scene was as massively cool as it was intentional. How could people not notice the coincidence? Or is it one of those Pavlovian thingies where they're conditioned for a big loud splodey in space while remembering nobody can hear ya scream? (In sci-fi, there's almost always sound in space in the way the laws of physics would say "nuh-uhhhh" to, but that's not exactly the point... unless it was part of the point. For once being true to physics or even as a directorial/artistic choice, the lack of sound was awesome.)

Which reminds of the bomb dropping scene. There's a nice youtube video that explains how it can be accomplished. Heck, timed electromagnetic relays so the bombs don't float back to the source ship is reasonable enough...) Heck, each bomb could have a small cache of compressed gas that's activated to make the initial drop possible.

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Which still doesn't let the franchise off the hook for flagrant scientific inaccuracy, but it's sci-fi/fantasy. In reality, space is boring. "2001" was boring because it tried to be true to science reality, but an urban legend claims people who say it more than once were all doped up on something, which makes an eerie sort of sense... A lot of Doctor Who stories from 1969, cashing in on the moon trip hubbub, also did the "reality" trope - which resulted in tons of padding, not always good padding either... the sad part is, nobody doped up while sitting through those. Which might be for the best if the target audience for that show was 12 whereas "2001" was meant more for older teens and adults...

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^ Let me clarify what I meant by using the word "agenda":
In making The Force Awakens, both J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan were actively trying to recreate the 'feelings' that they had personally experienced after seeing the original Star Wars in 1977... which is why TFA so deliberately recreates ANH's biggest setpieces and looks so similar to that film in the way it's cut together.

By contrast, Rian Johnson simply took what Abrams and Kasdan did, narratively, with TFA and told the story he wanted to tell. He didn't attach any ulterior motives to that story or the way he tried to tell it.

Cool. :techman:

I now have a new hope that IX won't be such a do-over of VI.
 
I think his agenda was to subvert expectations®, whenever, wherever, and however possible, great and small, rich and poor, sparing no expense.
 
I think his agenda was to subvert expectations®, whenever, wherever, and however possible, great and small, rich and poor, sparing no expense.
yes, but did he do it well? I say not. the tossing the light saber, luke's blue milk..not good additions.. and.. Rose Tico..
 
yes, but did he do it well? I say not. the tossing the light saber, luke's blue milk..not good additions.. and.. Rose Tico..
That will vary from person to person, but largely, I would answer "Yes, he did it well." I liked Rose (a lot). I was even sad that Paige died. The intensity of the emotional connection for me was pretty well established and had me along for the ride.

This obviously will vary from person to person but that's my answer.
 
I think your last statement is based on opinion, there is an agenda, and Kathleen Kennedy wears it on her T-shirts..the writing and casting also reflect that. Sorry to burst your bubble but it's "ACTUAL FACT".

yes, but did he do it well? I say not. the tossing the light saber,
was hilarious
luke's blue milk..
OK, I admit this one was kind gross
not good additions..
Sure they were
and.. Rose Tico..
was great
I think your last statement is based on opinion, there is an agenda, and Kathleen Kennedy wears it on her T-shirts..the writing and casting also reflect that. Sorry to burst your bubble but it's "ACTUAL FACT".
OK, I never really paid that much attention to her clothes, what are the T-shirts and agenda you're revering to?
 
So I have noticed some reviewers saying that TLJ was too respectful and reverential of classic Star Wars and didn't take any real chances, and other reviewers saying that TLJ changed way too much and was very disrespectful to Star Wars! :wtf:

This is why I don't pay much attention to reviews, whether they come from professional reviewers or the movie-going public. :rolleyes:

OK, I never really paid that much attention to her clothes, what are the T-shirts and agenda you're revering to?

Probably the t-shirts that say "The Force is female." And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I don't see why there needs to be any fan moaning about agendas and whatnot.

Kor
 
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Probably the t-shirts that say "The Force is female." And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I don't see why there needs to be any fan moaning about agendas and whatnot.
It's the whole "Kennedy is ruining Star Wars with SJW" nonsense. And, it's getting to conspiracy theory levels, that Rian Johnson wrote the movie specifically to satisfy Reylo shippers on Tumblr, while Kathleen Kennedy is working to "ruin" Star Wars by having more female characters.

I would laugh, but the sad part is there are people legitimately believe the only way to make Star Wars "good again" (in quotes because define good at this point-it started out as a child's film!) is to fire Kathleen Kennedy! Because, obviously if GL got booed out the movie making business, clearly the fans know how to make the proper HR decisions for a film making studio...
 
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Well...

I finally got around to rewatching The Last Jedi.

And well, I gotta say, it improved on the second viewing.

Somehow my mind did a 180. Almost. I rewatched TFA probably 6 times and my mind never gained a more positive appreciation for it. But this was different. I am not quite sure how but with that said, some things I noticed now that I think made me like this film more:

1. Man oh man was Luke Skywalker’s last stand more epic than I gave it credit for. Folks, Luke is the most powerful Jedi of the saga. Mace, Obi-Wan, Yoda...they never showed that kind of power. As much as I would have loved to see Lukes lightsaber abilities, that was a true Jedi last stand. For those complaining that Luke wasn’t given reverential treatment how can you not appreciate what was given to him there? Which leads into Luke’s journey...

2. I was one who originally was off put by what seemed to be Luke’s grumpy old man routine. And while I still found a bit of distaste in seeing such a stark difference between that and the Luke of the OT, who redeemed his father against the “wisdom” of Yoda and Kenobi, I appreciate why a bit more that Luke was the way he was. If anything, he did exactly what Yoda did after he failed the whole Jedi Order. He exiled himself. Yet I don’t see see wholesale condemnation of Yoda for the same reason. Now granted, Yoda held out hope. And yet, go back to Luke’s scene with Yoda. Deep down, I think his faith was still there. Look at how upset he gets when Yoda destroys the texts. He’s torn. He’s conflicted. The signs are there if you look for them.

3. Luke’s impulse to kill Ben then reneging therof was a still bit off to me, but it helped lend credence to Yoda’s word and also showed again how much of a true Jedi Luke was. As much I love Mace Windu, when he raised his saber he went all in. Luke had the courage and conscience to stop himself. Unfortunately he played right into ben’s hands but as Rey said, and Leia, that was Bens choice from there on out to embrace a dark path.

4. It seems at times that Rian was subtly saying we should bury the past of Star Wars, and this upset fans. Go back to the source though; ah yes Kylo uttered those lines. The villain utters this. Now contrast that with Yoda playfully chiding Luke for not passing on the Jedi knowledge and Rey embracing a more simplistic and good view of the Force. I believe Rians overall message was that when it comes to the past, we need balance; while we should look to the past to find lessons (Yoda) we need to use that to grow and refine ourselves not be hopeless or forever beholden to our mistakes (Luke). We can choose to learn from our circumstances and mistakes (Rey, Luke in the end), yet to take it to the other extreme (Kylo) is wrong too. We can’t change the past, and get rid of it or “bury” it. We must learn and grow from it. The Jedi did not do this and that was their downfall; so rather the Jedi need not end but rather they needed to grow organically. By having balance in their views of the force and the past, I believe Rey’s order will embrace the good of the Jedi but also learn more from the Force and the old orders flaws (forbidden attachments, rigid training standards, isolation, etc). Failure is the greatest teacher

Again I’m pleasantly surprised at how much this film improved for me in just one repeat viewing. That’s not to say it doesn’t have its flaws, some rather glaring (Canto Bight, Leia as Mary Poppins, cringeworthy dialogue from Hux, Rose at times, Phasma getting the Fett treatment, a failure to at least give us basic background on the dynamics of the political climate, a premature but necessary killing of Snoke) but the bottom line is they *tried*. Rian tried. I now have a respect for that. He could have played it safe like Abrams but he didn’t.

The Last Jedi has gone from a low end (3/10) to a 7/10. Welcome back to worst movie status AOTC. I missed you :D
 
Okay, so a buddy of mine actually bought this thing; We're still friends.
I sincerely did try to give it another shot. I made it to the part where Poe DaMoron starts hurling yo mamma jokes at General Hugs.

Is there a grade lower than an F
 
It seems at times that Rian was subtly saying we should bury the past of Star Wars, and this upset fans. Go back to the source though; ah yes Kylo uttered those lines. The villain utters this. Now contrast that with Yoda playfully chiding Luke for not passing on the Jedi knowledge and Rey embracing a more simplistic and good view of the Force. I believe Rians overall message was that when it comes to the past, we need balance

This 100% this.

Okay, so a buddy of mine actually bought this thing; We're still friends.
I sincerely did try to give it another shot. I made it to the part where Poe DaMoron starts hurling yo mamma jokes at General Hugs.

Is there a grade lower than an F
You must be fun at parties.
 
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