I hadn't even thought of that!Also, the movie ends with this...
... which is even stronger evidence they're in the same universe.
Spoilers Avengers: Infinity War grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Wife loved it. I fell asleep.
In a few early TOS episodes, they were referred to as “Vulcanians,” but “Vulcan” is the one that stuck, and I for one think it sounds better.
BTW, what do you call somebody from Gaul? A Gaul. So it’s not unprecedented.
I was bored.
Seems to be an issue with media nowadays for you. You alright, buddy?
Fine. Love Lost in Space, Westworld and other things. The Marvel "punch someone-one liner-punch someone-one liner-punch someone- sad moment" has pretty much run its course for me.
Review - Avengers: Infinity War
GOOD:
No surprise, but most of Cap's all too brief scenes were solid, and his "non-Avengers" team (Black Widow and the Falcon) make an interesting trio, similar to their chemistry in The Winter Soldier. They're the most interesting Avengers combination, to be quite honest.
Though it was not explained, Proxima Midnight obviously sensed something about Rogers--altering her to his presence. Wanda reacted to that, too, which is interesting, as I doubt Proxima--in the zone of attacking--would stop because any random human in the shadows happened to be on the other side of the platform. That deserves an explanation.
Cap vs. Thanos: So, contrary to the Cap-haters on YouTube (yes, there are a few), Thanos was surprised by Roger's strength, and had his head snapped back by one of Cap's blows. Further, Thanos tried to deliver a death blow, but it in the end, it only knocked out Cap, which shattered all of the "Thanos is gonna crush Cap" theories about this film.
The Red Skull was interesting, but not a surrise, as his departure in The First Avenger pointed to his being transported somewhere, not killed, as Cap believed. He should play a pivotal role in this closing chapter of the MCU's decade of releases--a bookend along with his greatest enemy. Lost opportunity if that's not te case.
All things Dr. Strange--from his unimpressed attitude toward Stark and Spider-Man ("Is he your ward?" - I thought that was a sly Batman jab), to his fearless face off with Thanos, he was so comic-book perfect, especially for anyone familiar with the original Stan Lee/Steve Ditko stories from the pages of Strange Tales.
Thor earned the number three spot on the most interesting character list in the film, truly coming off like various versions of the comic book version.
BAD:
No real deaths /consequences = no story drama & emotional investment.
First, anyone going into this understood that studios are so spoiler-phobic that much misdirection is built into the marketing of their films, hence trailers using clips, even dialogue inflections that suggest something that was not exactly in the released product. Being well aware of that--and understanding the many "closings" (the existing MCU) / "openings" (the next phase of the MCU) of this chapter in the franchise is supposed to represent, there was no way Infinity War was going to be a complete success in selling the dire situation its marketing all but fired off like a 4th of July display. Part of the problem is that the world has been so aware of the behind the scenes decisions regarding character and actors, that its impossible to effectively sell the "tragedies" to an audience who already know what's coming:
In A3, the story is so scattered, only linked by the constant beating of the "Uh-oh--i-i-its T-thanos!" drum, that the characters are--more often than not--mere toys moved from one scene to another until the film finally unveiled the answer to the "who's gonna die" game that's been the most talked about story element for months.
Some might argue that the "deaths" are more about how it hits / changes the survivors than the impact on audiences, but the job of any film is to satisfy both requirements. That did not happen in A3.
Being a film serving as a 10 year hallmark for the MCU, one of A3's tasks was to call back to various character moments of the past as a contrast / bookend to where the characters stand today. Instead, A3's Tony Stark still comes off as a man still never dealing with the price of his own actions / concept of sacrifice and / or thinking he can find some way out (which was supposed to be addressed in Civil War), making his arrogance during most of his end of the Thanos conflict seem like he has not learned much from his past.
The Stark chapter should have been the MCU's version of Admiral Kirk as seen in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, where Kirk had to finally realize that his beliefs and abilities may end up causing the very thing you have avoided, or not forced to deal with in the worst, most personal death way. Its not that he would not be shocked at the "deaths", but he's still approaching problems in a way all too similar to the early years as Iron Man, when he was supposed to be aware of his failings (again, in Civil War). Stark failed to hesitate...really tear into himself--even for a moment--for (once again) buying into his own abilities too much, in other words, Kirk's "...patting myself on the back for my ingenuity".
The gargantuan difference between TWOK and A3 examples is that the talents behind that Trek sequel remembered that the audience also had to feel there were true consequences for Kirk's decisions that were based not only on the events of the film's story, but the history of the characters involved, so death felt like a serious blow to all involved. In A3's case...it did not. It was just the expected "who's gonna die" moment.
Thanos.
As a villain, some have gone on and on about "great" Thanos was, but his reasoning for using the infinity stones was absolutely....stupid. I've felt the same of his comic inspiration's motives as well. He's not "mad" (IOW, insane), but just pain stupid, as the thought of killing half of any population in order to "bring balance" or ensure (what he believes will be) the survival for the rest has violent resistance as its only response, thus launching another form of destruction of life he claimed to be interested in preserving (after the mass murders, that is). For some reason, some fantasy films love having antagonists buy into this kind of "peace through death" crap, when no adult, rational mind would ever think such a plan would lead to success (Darth Sidious sort of walks that side of the villain street).
Peter Quill: the biggest fool in the MCU.
Yes, he's hurt by the idea that Gamora might be dead, but haranguing Thanos right a the moment he's subdued enough that the gauntlet was nearly off makes him the biggest fool in MCU history. By the time of this scene, he was fully aware of what Thanos intended to do/what the infinity stones meant, yet he kicked that aside at the most critical moment of all. From a screenwriting view, idiot intervention was a terrible way to have Thanos regain his focus.
The default argument is that Infinity War is a two part act, so this film cannot be judged as an individual piece, but any film in a series can and will be analyzed that way, as they should be able to pull the double duty of standing on their own as a solid story & logically flows into the follow-up, which again, worked in the Lord of the Rings films, and clearly Star Wars' original trilogy. Overall, A3 was not the MCU's finest chapter (that distinction remains the crown on The Winter Soldier's head) when it should have been--or at least be that aforementioned solid story that flows into the next, while being the oft-mentioned closing chapter of 10 years of MCU productions.
GRADE: C
GOOD:
No surprise, but most of Cap's all too brief scenes were solid, and his "non-Avengers" team (Black Widow and the Falcon) make an interesting trio, similar to their chemistry in The Winter Soldier. They're the most interesting Avengers combination, to be quite honest.
Though it was not explained, Proxima Midnight obviously sensed something about Rogers--altering her to his presence. Wanda reacted to that, too, which is interesting, as I doubt Proxima--in the zone of attacking--would stop because any random human in the shadows happened to be on the other side of the platform. That deserves an explanation.
Cap vs. Thanos: So, contrary to the Cap-haters on YouTube (yes, there are a few), Thanos was surprised by Roger's strength, and had his head snapped back by one of Cap's blows. Further, Thanos tried to deliver a death blow, but it in the end, it only knocked out Cap, which shattered all of the "Thanos is gonna crush Cap" theories about this film.
The Red Skull was interesting, but not a surrise, as his departure in The First Avenger pointed to his being transported somewhere, not killed, as Cap believed. He should play a pivotal role in this closing chapter of the MCU's decade of releases--a bookend along with his greatest enemy. Lost opportunity if that's not te case.
All things Dr. Strange--from his unimpressed attitude toward Stark and Spider-Man ("Is he your ward?" - I thought that was a sly Batman jab), to his fearless face off with Thanos, he was so comic-book perfect, especially for anyone familiar with the original Stan Lee/Steve Ditko stories from the pages of Strange Tales.
Thor earned the number three spot on the most interesting character list in the film, truly coming off like various versions of the comic book version.
BAD:
No real deaths /consequences = no story drama & emotional investment.
First, anyone going into this understood that studios are so spoiler-phobic that much misdirection is built into the marketing of their films, hence trailers using clips, even dialogue inflections that suggest something that was not exactly in the released product. Being well aware of that--and understanding the many "closings" (the existing MCU) / "openings" (the next phase of the MCU) of this chapter in the franchise is supposed to represent, there was no way Infinity War was going to be a complete success in selling the dire situation its marketing all but fired off like a 4th of July display. Part of the problem is that the world has been so aware of the behind the scenes decisions regarding character and actors, that its impossible to effectively sell the "tragedies" to an audience who already know what's coming:
- Reportedly, Sebastian Stan originally signed for nine MCU films, and as of A3's release. Appearing in five films (if one includes the Black Panther cameo, but not the clip from Ant Man, which was also used in Civil War), it is clear Bucky will return to the land of the living in one way or another.
- The well publicized end of the contracts of Downey, Jr., Evans & Hemsworth means the Stark, Rogers and Thor characters will either die in next year's A4, or ride off into the sunset. Whatever the case may be, audiences already know their chapters are coming to a close, so death, retirement, time travel--whatever--will lack the poignancy even after all of the foreshadowing dropped like an anvil in this film, most notably, the "sacrifice" / "one man" exchange between Steve Rogers and Vision.
- Spider-Man and Black Panther have sequels coming...that's sequels, not prequels, so they are obviously coming back in the next phase, especially when one considers Black Panther's box office success and what it took for Disney to get to use Spider-Man. Yep...this film could have sent T'Challa and Peter on a vacation for all it will matter
In A3, the story is so scattered, only linked by the constant beating of the "Uh-oh--i-i-its T-thanos!" drum, that the characters are--more often than not--mere toys moved from one scene to another until the film finally unveiled the answer to the "who's gonna die" game that's been the most talked about story element for months.
Some might argue that the "deaths" are more about how it hits / changes the survivors than the impact on audiences, but the job of any film is to satisfy both requirements. That did not happen in A3.
Being a film serving as a 10 year hallmark for the MCU, one of A3's tasks was to call back to various character moments of the past as a contrast / bookend to where the characters stand today. Instead, A3's Tony Stark still comes off as a man still never dealing with the price of his own actions / concept of sacrifice and / or thinking he can find some way out (which was supposed to be addressed in Civil War), making his arrogance during most of his end of the Thanos conflict seem like he has not learned much from his past.
The Stark chapter should have been the MCU's version of Admiral Kirk as seen in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, where Kirk had to finally realize that his beliefs and abilities may end up causing the very thing you have avoided, or not forced to deal with in the worst, most personal death way. Its not that he would not be shocked at the "deaths", but he's still approaching problems in a way all too similar to the early years as Iron Man, when he was supposed to be aware of his failings (again, in Civil War). Stark failed to hesitate...really tear into himself--even for a moment--for (once again) buying into his own abilities too much, in other words, Kirk's "...patting myself on the back for my ingenuity".
The gargantuan difference between TWOK and A3 examples is that the talents behind that Trek sequel remembered that the audience also had to feel there were true consequences for Kirk's decisions that were based not only on the events of the film's story, but the history of the characters involved, so death felt like a serious blow to all involved. In A3's case...it did not. It was just the expected "who's gonna die" moment.
Thanos.
As a villain, some have gone on and on about "great" Thanos was, but his reasoning for using the infinity stones was absolutely....stupid. I've felt the same of his comic inspiration's motives as well. He's not "mad" (IOW, insane), but just pain stupid, as the thought of killing half of any population in order to "bring balance" or ensure (what he believes will be) the survival for the rest has violent resistance as its only response, thus launching another form of destruction of life he claimed to be interested in preserving (after the mass murders, that is). For some reason, some fantasy films love having antagonists buy into this kind of "peace through death" crap, when no adult, rational mind would ever think such a plan would lead to success (Darth Sidious sort of walks that side of the villain street).
Peter Quill: the biggest fool in the MCU.
Yes, he's hurt by the idea that Gamora might be dead, but haranguing Thanos right a the moment he's subdued enough that the gauntlet was nearly off makes him the biggest fool in MCU history. By the time of this scene, he was fully aware of what Thanos intended to do/what the infinity stones meant, yet he kicked that aside at the most critical moment of all. From a screenwriting view, idiot intervention was a terrible way to have Thanos regain his focus.
The default argument is that Infinity War is a two part act, so this film cannot be judged as an individual piece, but any film in a series can and will be analyzed that way, as they should be able to pull the double duty of standing on their own as a solid story & logically flows into the follow-up, which again, worked in the Lord of the Rings films, and clearly Star Wars' original trilogy. Overall, A3 was not the MCU's finest chapter (that distinction remains the crown on The Winter Soldier's head) when it should have been--or at least be that aforementioned solid story that flows into the next, while being the oft-mentioned closing chapter of 10 years of MCU productions.
GRADE: C
So like X-Men DOFP when we knew that they'd succeed at their mission and create a happy future in the end.
Eh, LOTR worked because the source material was just that good so people were willing to sit through it even if they knew the outcome.
So like how Xavier and Magneto never change in all the X-Men Movies?
The Kirk who was fine about all that stuff by TVH and back to his usual self?
So like Joker and his random anarchist nonsense in TDK.
Newsflash, characters who act like flawed people are better than 1-Dimensional pristine do-gooders.
You still don't get how a Shared Universe works, you still want everything to be backwards and standalone. You really just don't get it.
The crap lighting, mainly.
http://ew.com/movies/2018/03/08/avengers-infinity-war-behind-the-scenes/
Feige calls MCU Titan "a planet", implying that it is not the moon of Saturn.
I doubt we'll see Heimdall, Loki and possibly Gamora again. Many of the dissolved will be back, but some, perhaps all of Cap, Tony, Thor and Hawkeye will be sacrificed in the next one.
Death. Consequences. Drama. Emotional investment.
I don't think we've seen the last of Gamora, but Vision is toast.
I referred to the big characters--Bucky, Black Panther and Spider-Man. You can bet Dr. Strange will return.
Prediction. That's not to be found in this film, and unless the A4 "deaths" have some meaning--a reason to happen other than playing the "Who's gonna die?" game, it will be as far removed from emotional investment as the "deaths" in Infinity War..
So just like how DOFP killed off all those people in the future and brought them back...or how it undid all the X3 deaths,
Yeah, Gamora is inside the soul stone and she'll be taken back out of that thing before all this is done. Thanos may even do it himself.
Heimdall on the other hand is quite happily chilling in Valhalla and will probably stay there. As for Loki...well, it could go either way honestly.
Adam isn't even born yet... Did we at least see his cocoon at the end of Guardians II? So he's not already in the Stone... But what about Pip the Troll?
Since when did the moon of Saturn, Titan, have its own moon?What Obfuscation. In the actual comics it WAS/IS Titan, the moon of Saturn. There's zero reason to believe it isn't Titan, the moon of Saturn in the MCU. Again, the MCU isn't our 'Universe' - so whatever Titan looks like here, it's obviously different in the MCU.
Seriously, we're talking a Universe with living gods, and things like radiation giving people super powers, so you're going to complain - "Hey, in our universe Titan is lifeless, so it can't be Titan in the MCU..." sheesh.
Never count an android out. Perhaps Shuri downloaded his consciousness or Stark can find a way to fix him once he's back on Earth.
Although it would be a cop-out if Shuri says.
"He's not gone. He's here"
It would be like "Age of Ultron" where we thought JARVIS was a goner but he just spread his data out and fled
It could be Rhea or Hyperion.
It would help if the flawed moment wasn't itself one-dimensional.
Tom Holland improvised THAT scene.
https://uproxx.com/hitfix/infinity-war-tom-holland-spider-man-ending/
https://uproxx.com/hitfix/infinity-war-tom-holland-spider-man-ending/