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We could've had the First Asian Female Captain, but no....

I’m not colour blind, I am aware there are issues around the world. I just choose not to treat or view anyone as different whether they’re White, Black, Asian, Gay or Trans gender.

Rightly or wrongly I’m bringing my kids up not to view or treat any one differently, of course to respect other cultures but to treat them exactly the same as they would anyone else, because if I was in the same position I wouldn’t want people to view me differently, but what do I know, I’m white and straight so I can’t possibly comment on anything.

I’m not going to bother commenting any more on the subject because it’s pointless! Wasted words!

Which in itself isn't a problem.

But we aren't talking about how you treat people in your day to day life.

We're talking about the way you are denying the existence of a problem whilst not listening to the very people affected by it. People who are black, gay, trans are telling you your experience of the issue doesn't gel with yours but you are insisting that they are "sad" for being affected by something you claim isn't a problem because you aren't on the receiving end.
 
Was the third Ghostbusters movie mediocre because all the leads were female or due to poor storytelling? (I have not seen it).
It does not need to be either/or between diverse casting and quality stories. I don't expect a Jane Austen based movie to be diverse (although if one has a vivid imagination it can be done, the stories are fiction after all e.g Kenneth Branagh's version of Much ado about nothing by William Shakespeare & Disney's Beauty and the beast) but I do expect a futuristic, positive show about humanity to be diverse unless the prelude is 'due to a global, genocidal Holocaust all the non white people were murdered and White Americans inherited the earth'.
 
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Which in itself isn't a problem.

But we aren't talking about how you treat people in your day to day life.

We're talking about the way you are denying the existence of a problem whilst not listening to the very people affected by it. People who are black, gay, trans are telling you your experience of the issue doesn't gel with yours but you are insisting that they are "sad" for being affected by something you claim isn't a problem because you aren't on the receiving end.

Ok, maybe that came across wrong. What I mean by that is I don’t believe you should automatically like something just because a black person or Asian person or woman or gay person or trans person has the lead role, surely they have to have depth to their acting, a likeable factor other than their sexual preference/skin colour.
 
Ok, maybe that came across wrong. What I mean by that is I don’t believe you should automatically like something just because a black person or Asian person or woman or gay person or trans person has the lead role, surely they have to have depth to their acting, a likeable factor other than their sexual preference/skin colour.
Well nobody is suggesting that. They are suggesting that it is a positive thing to have a wider range of actors getting parts on TV, and that historically Star Trek has not lived up to its alleged message of diversity by supplying that range, and therefore it would be a nice thing to have had an Asian woman as the captain for a longer run.
A show can be diverse and still suck beyond the telling of it (for example, someone will reply 'yeah, like Discovery' to this comment).
 
Ok, maybe that came across wrong. What I mean by that is I don’t believe you should automatically like something just because a black person or Asian person or woman or gay person or trans person has the lead role, surely they have to have depth to their acting, a likeable factor other than their sexual preference/skin colour.

I don't think anyone really endorses tokenism, but there is no shortage of talented black, asian, gay, trans performers out there. Why can't we have the best of both worlds?
 
Brief aside: I think it is fair to point out that Martin Freeman's character was hamstrung by the unnecessary American accent and the "support and exposition" role he had in the script.

It's funny, I thought Serkis was so cartoonishly over the top that he didn't belong in the same universe as the other characters - and we're talking about a comic book universe where not much can be over the top. :lol:

I thought Freeman was fine, though the responsibility he was given at the climax was a bit of a reach.
 
Wow! Just wow! You’ve totally missed what I’ve been saying.

So because I don’t see an issue with other races/sexual orientations that’s my white man privelidge is it? You talk shit. You know fuck all about me n the background I come from so don’t talk to me like you do.

why is my acceptance of everyone is equal such a bad thing to you? Because I don’t treat black people any different to white or gay any different to straight. Should I treat them differently? Is that what you’re saying? I think you have a huge problem. I’m aware that under representation happened for years but that simply isn’t the case anymore.
You are missing what everyone else is saying! This isn't an attack on you so please don't misunderstand this, if you say you treat everyone the same and don't see a difference that's technically a good thing and I am sure you mean it but it is also a sign of privilege because by the public at large minorities are treated differently, there IS a difference and minorities experience it every day.

And your assumption that underepresentation isn't a case anymore is just wrong, that's just another sign of your privilege and again, calling out your privilege is not an attack and it doesn't mean you're a bad person, it's just a fact. I may be gay but I'm also white and that makes me priviliged in that regard and recognizing our own privilege is important.
 
that’s my white man privelidge is it?
In short, yes. Your posts in this thread epitomise white privelege - because you haven't found yourself on the wrong side of oppressive systems, you can imagine that race, sexuality and so on are issues easily addressed with a well intentioned desire to "not see colour" and "treat everyone the same". Unfortunately, that's not a helpful attitude, as it denies the reality and power of racism, homophobia, etc and the experience those who have been on the other side of it. You claim that the representation issue is behind us, which is patently untrue (how many women are there in Infinity War again?) and that is a nice example of the problem with your approach. By convincing yourself that it's as simple as "not seeing" diversity, you don't notice the problem when it flares up. You enjoy watching a male actor and a female actor the same, you wouldn't be upset if they cast a woman instead, so what's the issue? The issue is the fact that this does nothing at all to address the imbalance. If you want things to change, you have to acknowledge the issue and work hard and deliberately to solve it. Anything else is just acceptance, and bolstering, of the status quo.

As @Takeru says, it isn't wrong to be priveleged. If privelege points were assigned at birth, I caught the fucking golden snitch. But it is important to be aware of our privelege and how that can lead us, with the best of intentions, to a warped worldview by virtue of being the 'default human' in our cultures. The good part is that it also gives us power which we can weild as an ally. Being the priveleged person pointing out injustice is a powerful thing, and people are more likely to listen. That is something worth teaching our kids.
 
I was particularly bummed by handling of Georgiou, because I kinda had different expectations based on the promotion before the show. There was quite a bit talk about the first all female captain & first officer duo, so it was super disappointing to learn that in the second episode said captain gets killed and the first officer demoted...
 
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It's funny, I thought Serkis was so cartoonishly over the top that he didn't belong in the same universe as the other characters - and we're talking about a comic book universe where not much can be over the top. :lol:

I thought Freeman was fine, though the responsibility he was given at the climax was a bit of a reach.

After Thor:Ragnarok, Serkis' acting choices were comparatively mild :lol:, and they gave a welcome note of insanity/humanity in a relatively serious film.

Freeman was (perhaps unintentionally?) the "token" character who is given a chance to use technology far outside his grasp but performs heroically and admirably under pressure...a role traditionally given to a minority race actor. It just felt flat...
 
It's a tough call sometimes. Representation matters, but drama entails characters making bad choices, or bad things happening to them. I was sad to see her get killed off, but it made sense within the context of the story, and you still had a black woman lead, in terms of the diversity question.
 
I’m aware that under representation happened for years but that simply isn’t the case anymore.
Actually it still is. It's still a very big issue and will continue to be so for a long time at this rate. Those of us aren't being represented tend to notice this more than those who are represented. I know you like to claim that black people have had fair representation since the 60s and it's still a fairly small range of roles. There is a reason that Black Panther was seen as groundbreaking and it wasn't the box office gross. It's because while you'll always see movies packed with white people and a few roles given to other groups, it's never really the reverse and usually the lead is a white person there to learn about racism or save them. Like how The Help is about a white woman writing a book to fight racism because she likes the black women in her area or how The Great Wall is about Matt Damon saving China. It's been a very common trope for over a century now, it's called White Savior. Even most movies and shows about minority groups is about them being oppressed by white people, but forcing in a good white person to avoid alienating the white audience instead of possibly teaching them an actual lesson. We get maybe one or two movies a year where it's just a story where the leads are some minority group. Call Me By Your Name is just a love story about two men and it's like any other love story. That's what people want. We don't want to be reminded how awful the world have been to us and still is in many cases. Just to be treated like white guys, who have so many opportunities to see themselves in different material. From superheroes to romances to drama to comedy. Will they be better? Who knows? We never tried it and most of the movies and shows about white guys is awful and gets buried under the good stuff.

I'm trans and I can think of less than 5 positive portrayals of trans people in my entire life. I don't count men playing trans women since that's like counting blackface as representation. I can't begin to count how many white guys I've seen. So no, it isn't equal and I find it stunning that anyone could think that.
 
When an under-represented group of people says that representation matters and you are not part of that group, maybe try accepting that point of view and moving on. It doesn't come off as particularly noble or intelligent to argue that it shouldn't matter to anyone ad nauseam.

Different perspectives are meant to add value, not take it away.
 
So Awesome Possum can directly swear at me but if I imply I think someone has a problem that’s wrong, right? Ok.

Which part of "Comments to PM" did you not get?

If you see somebody attacking/insulting you personally, report the post. I read most of the thread and I didn't see any personal insult directed at you. If there was one, report it or send me a PM and mods will review it.

Comments to PM. For real, this time. This forum is not your stage. If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me. Keep going here and an infraction will follow.
 
When an under-represented group of people says that representation matters and you are not part of that group, maybe try accepting that point of view and moving on. It doesn't come off as particularly noble or intelligent to argue that it shouldn't matter to anyone ad nauseam.

Different perspectives are meant to add value, not take it away.
Continuing to insist that it's already equal and under-represented people try to explain that it isn't, maybe you should take their word for it. They tend to have a decent amount of awareness of how they're represented in media. Even more so with society itself. The fact is that no group gets the same level of treatment and fairness that white men get, no one. If that bothers you and you're a white man, then instead of telling everyone they're wrong, listen to them and do what you can to stop it.
 
Ok, maybe that came across wrong. What I mean by that is I don’t believe you should automatically like something just because a black person or Asian person or woman or gay person or trans person has the lead role, surely they have to have depth to their acting, a likeable factor other than their sexual preference/skin colour.
I agree with you.
 
I was particularly bummed by handling of Georgiou, because I kinda had different expectations based on the promotion before the show. There was quite a bit talk about the first all female captain & first officer duo, so it was super disappointing to learn that in the second episode said captain gets killed and the first officer demoted...
We were misled. The show promoted this notion that there would be two major starships to follow, unlike the traditional *one*. I had it in my head that these two ships would carry us through the series, with its Captains.
 
We were misled. The show promoted this notion that there would be two major starships to follow, unlike the traditional *one*. I had it in my head that these two ships would carry us through the series, with its Captains.
It was an interesting idea and I would have preferred that.
 
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