USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

[fireproof78]

I can. I'd give real money to see his Prime universe counterpart.

Prime Lorca is alive. I can feel it.

Also, Isaacs' was very guarded in his responses regarding next season.

Mirror Lorca is dead. Prime Lorca _might_ still be alive. Kelvin Lorca, I don't know.

I feel I need a comic now with Kelvin Lorca.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Prime Lorca is alive. I can feel it.

Also, Isaacs' was very guarded in his responses regarding next season.

I feel I need a comic now with Kelvin Lorca.

Or at least Kevin Lorca, Gabriel's twin brother we didn't know about.

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

Way back, the classic Enterprise was considered a Heavy Cruiser (it appears on screengraphics in STIII, which were pages from the old Star Fleet Technical Manual). I guess she's a 289m light cruiser in DSC's world of 750m behemoths.

She’ll be the same size as jjprise

 

[Rahul]

I still think the shape itself is menacing regardless of colour. Of course black makes it moreso.

YMMV of course. But for me it's basically the evil tank-version of an obvious good-guys ship. Thus, if you remove the evil-tank coating (aka smoothen the edges, and brighten it up), there's a beautiful, modern version of an Enterprise beneath it!

I can. I'd give real money to see his Prime universe counterpart.

We know literally nothing about Prime Lorca at this point. Zilch. Nada.
The only idea that he "could" be interesting comes from the notion that he might be somewhat similar to how MU Lorca was depicted previous to the big reveal. Thus, the reveal actually made his character weaker. All the interesting facets are gone. We can only imagine whether Prime Lorca was actually interesting. Maybe he is as bland a good guy as season 1 Archer?

I agree; Trek hasn't considered the ship a character since Generations. Maybe Voyager.

Voyager definitely - I can't remember how often she was reffered to as their "home". Ben Sisko's motherfuckin' Pimphand (aka "the Defiant") also had a clear character - small, gruff, aggressive, and there was a clear emotional connection to Sisko. The station DS9 interestingly not so much - she was mostly a place with history. But the NX-01 clearly became a character over the course of the series, too.
At this point, it might be simply too early on for the characters to make an emotional connection to the Discovery - especially since Burnham isn't the Captain (yet?), and it's usually through the character of the Captain that we see the ship being treated like a character.

 

[Gonzo]

She’ll be the same size as jjprise

I don't mind how big she is myself but from the short scene we saw at the end of the season I don't think she is going to be as big as that, maybe 450m, 500m tops.

If she was the same size as the Kelvin 1701 she would have seemed even bigger in that ending shot of them facing each other as she was in the foreground, I think that scene was shot that way to make her look equivalent in size, which wouldn't be necessary if she was the same size already.

If it turns out she is 700m like the Kelvin 1701 I would be fine with that, it would however start up the whole "is this prime" debate all over again.

Although I must admit some of the Starfleet ships we saw during the pilot episode looked pretty bloody big to me, especially the Nimitz class, that saucer looked huge and we got a pretty good look at it from above and below.

 

[Belz...]

She’ll be the same size as jjprise

I doubt it, though it might be slightly bigger than the "official" TOS Enterprise's size for various reasons.

We know literally nothing about Prime Lorca at this point. Zilch. Nada.
The only idea that he "could" be interesting comes from the notion that he might be somewhat similar to how MU Lorca was depicted previous to the big reveal. Thus, the reveal actually made his character weaker. All the interesting facets are gone.

I don't understand what you mean. It actually made a lot of his words and actions from earlier in the series make sense, like why he wanted Burnham on the ship at all, etc. And it's hinted that Prime Lorca was transported to the Mirror Universe just as Mirror Lorca was transported to the Prime, so his experiences in that universe might have made him a lot more like the Lorca we thought we had pre-reveal.

Voyager definitely - I can't remember how often she was reffered to as their "home".

I'll take your word for it, since I stopped watching after 2 seasons.

But the NX-01 clearly became a character over the course of the series, too.

I didn't get that impression. And the reboot movies had the same problem, blowing up the ship in the third movie like it's a tradition or something.

 

[lawman]

I think they wanted to change the Enterprise to have for instance a similar nacelle design to the other Starfleet ships we saw but someone had a brain fart and stopped them.

Actually, from what little behind-the-scenes info we have, it was the exact opposite: the designers for DSC were specifically told not to use round nacelles on any ships other than the Enterprise. Presumably, the goal was to keep it looking distinctive.

Which was stupid, better if they had made all the other Starfleet ships somewhat match the Enterprise like we saw in the films and early TV shows.

I'm inclined to agree. Especially given the other ship designs that we actually got.

John Eaves is ON RECORD saying that he specifically designed these starships to show exactly what you claim they DON'T show: a gradual progression in starship design decade after decade, with Shenzhou being one of the oldest designs and the Kerala being one of the newest.

IMHO he did a pretty bad job of it, then. But it is relevant, at least, that it's also on the record that he couldn't use round nacelles.

FWIW, the understanding of "design progression" that fans have latched on to seems to have been codified by Andrew Probert when he designed the Enterprise-C. His logic was, in its entirety, to take the profiles of the Excelsior and the Galaxy, put them side by side, and average the features. He originated the "evolutionary" view of design and I suspect it's what people still take as the high water mark for the franchise, thanks to how outspoken and passionate Probert has been about the worldbuilding logic behind his work.

Interesting. I never saw it that way, perhaps because I think of both the Excelsior-class and the Galaxy-class as rather awkward looking designs... whereas I love the Ent-C, which to my eye does a better job of evoking the look of the original Enterprise. But I've never looked at them all in a row, I suppose, so I can't deny that's what Probert did...

 

[Ronald Held]

If you assume the Constitution class was to stand apart from other designs, could some of its design be a homage to the NX-01 and maybe Phoenix?

 

[lawman]

We know literally nothing about Prime Lorca at this point. Zilch. Nada.
The only idea that he "could" be interesting comes from the notion that he might be somewhat similar to how MU Lorca was depicted previous to the big reveal. Thus, the reveal actually made his character weaker. All the interesting facets are gone. We can only imagine whether Prime Lorca was actually interesting.

What we know about him is this: if he appears, he'll be portrayed by Jason Isaacs. That's enough for me to assume he'll be interesting, since all through S1 Isaacs' acting consistently elevated his character to a level of complexity above the material he was actually given.

 

[Rahul]

I'll take your word for it, since I stopped watching after 2 seasons.

Seasons 3-5 are actually really good. You should give it a try, if you by chance have a bit spare time. They changed the show quite a bit up, after they got read of the Kazon.

I didn't get that impression. And the reboot movies had the same problem, blowing up the ship in the third movie like it's a tradition or something.

Indeed. The Kelvin-timeline movies also treated their ships purely as "things". Although that's IMO quite understanable in the movie format - we simply didn't get to know these ships that good, it's the same with the Enterprise-A from V and VI and the Enterprise-E in the TNG-movies.

 

[Rahul]

What we know about him is this: if he appears, he'll be portrayed by Jason Isaacs. That's enough for me to assume he'll be interesting, since all through S1 Isaacs' acting consistently elevated his character to a level of complexity above the material he was actually given.

If Jason Isaacs returns as Prime Lorca to the show, I now demand him to play the character as a doofus dork nice-guy

 

[Ovation]

If Jason Isaacs returns as Prime Lorca to the show, I now demand him to play the character as a doofus dork nice-guy

Only in flashbacks as his MU time will, no doubt, have changed him.

 

[Gonzo]

What we know about him is this: if he appears, he'll be portrayed by Jason Isaacs. That's enough for me to assume he'll be interesting, since all through S1 Isaacs' acting consistently elevated his character to a level of complexity above the material he was actually given.

He was one of the best parts of the show, they shouldn't have given him away so early and kept him until next season, it would have depended on his contract though.

I see Isaacs has won the Empire Award for his character on Discovery, well earned if you ask me.

 

[Gepard]

Interesting. I never saw it that way, perhaps because I think of both the Excelsior-class and the Galaxy-class as rather awkward looking designs... whereas I love the Ent-C, which to my eye does a better job of evoking the look of the original Enterprise. But I've never looked at them all in a row, I suppose, so I can't deny that's what Probert did...

The aired version isn't so slavishly evolutionary, thanks to the changes made to build the model on time and under budget. It's blatantly obvious when you look at Probet's original design in a lineup:

Even the impulse engines are a shriveled version of the ones on the Excelsior.

 

[fireproof78]

We know literally nothing about Prime Lorca at this point. Zilch. Nada.

If Jason Isaacs returns as Prime Lorca to the show, I now demand him to play the character as a doofus dork nice-guy

Perhaps read the novel to find out if that's the case.

 

[lawman]

Hmm, interesting! I wasn't aware of the history behind the design. Your post prompted me to do a little digging on Memory Alpha, where I see Rick Sternbach being quoted as follows...

"While Andy's color sketch showed an elliptical cross section for the engineering hull and an intended elliptical saucer (not clearly visible but confirmed by Andy), the Enterprise-C would require some simplifications if it were to be constructed in time for filming. I began drawing up the blueprints with a circular saucer and a circular cross section for the engineering hull, knowing that they would make model maker Greg Jein's job markedly easier."​

FWIW, I think the Sternbach and Jein version made for a much better-looking ship, "simplified" or not. Probert's original concept for the Ent-C wasn't as awkwardly proportioned as the B or D (IMHO the Ent-B's engineering hull always looked oversized compared to its saucer, while for the Ent-D the saucer was oversized compared to the engineering hull)... but neither was it particularly attractive or memorable, and it certainly didn't evoke the original Enterprise the way the circular shapes of the on-screen Ent-C did.

 

[Gepard]

I'm a big fan of the curvy, boat-like shapes of the Probert-influnced designs, so I find the final Ambassador class design simplistic and boring for my tastes, but YMMV and all that.

 

[Belz...]

To add to the conversation about Starfleet designs and lineage, etc. here's a collage I put together of 25 SF ships, arranged more-or-less chronologically, in my humble opinion.

Hopefully you guys can see it.

 

[Dukhat]

To add to the conversation about Starfleet designs and lineage, etc. here's a collage I put together of 25 SF ships, arranged more-or-less chronologically, in my humble opinion.

Hopefully you guys can see it.

It's uncertain when the TOS (or DSC if you will) Constitution class Enterprise was built in relation to the other DSC ships, since registry numbers are not chronological in DSC. I would assume based on the lineage you show above that it would be better placed between the Kelvin and the T'Plana'Hath. And I think that the Pasteur, while only seen the the future time of AGT, was actually built before the Ent-D based on the registry.

Also, the Enterprise-F isn't canon

 

[Vger23]

To add to the conversation about Starfleet designs and lineage, etc. here's a collage I put together of 25 SF ships, arranged more-or-less chronologically, in my humble opinion.

Hopefully you guys can see it.

I'm a firm believer that there isn't just one design philosophy that Starfleet uses, and there are likely multiple contractors.

An F-14, F-15, F-16, and F-22 all look very different and had different prime contractors, for example. I think that same element exists for Starfleet ships and their varying designs.

That said, I like the TOS movie-era and DSC era ships best (inside and out). I like the Kelvinverse and TNG era designs the least.