Nah you forget inflation 1 credit = $500
No salutes
- Thread starter Velocity
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Yeah, hopefully they've conquered inflation in the 23rd century. I've heard that a dollar in 1910 has a 2010 purchasing power equivalent of 1-2 cents. (Or is it the other way around? 1-2 cents had the purchasing power in 1910 that a dollar does today... No matter).
That's a novel idea. Someone should start a thread!
If you guys really wanna derail the thread, make it all about Janice Lester...then I can move it to the TOS forum and it's somebody else's problem.
He spends hours updating courses to Vulcan!
Someone pointed out something similar about the television series "House". In "House" you frequently saw doctors (albeit lower seniority ones) doing things like lab work. This is something you simply do not see in real life. Even in small rural hospitals that kind of work is delegated.
But I forget the term that applies, things like that are how many people envision things working even though they don't. We like to think our doctor gives our illness his/her undivided attention so they do things like stay on top of lab work.
In regards to the Helmsman in the original Star Trek being a fairly high ranking officer, it just occurred to me that the Helmsman (and sometimes the Navigator) also double as the ships weapons officer. This would certainly influence the rank level of someone assigned there.
Trivia note: Can anyone name in Star Trek the two times the ships weapons are shown being fired from somewhere other than the Helm or Navigator's positions?
"Balance of Terror"- phasers (actually torpedo visual effects) are shown as being fired from the forward phaser control room.
That one is well known. One not well known.
"Journey to Babel"- Chekov is shown firing both phasers and photon torpedoes from Mr. Spocks science station.
But I forget the term that applies, things like that are how many people envision things working even though they don't. We like to think our doctor gives our illness his/her undivided attention so they do things like stay on top of lab work.
In regards to the Helmsman in the original Star Trek being a fairly high ranking officer, it just occurred to me that the Helmsman (and sometimes the Navigator) also double as the ships weapons officer. This would certainly influence the rank level of someone assigned there.
Trivia note: Can anyone name in Star Trek the two times the ships weapons are shown being fired from somewhere other than the Helm or Navigator's positions?
"Balance of Terror"- phasers (actually torpedo visual effects) are shown as being fired from the forward phaser control room.
That one is well known. One not well known.
"Journey to Babel"- Chekov is shown firing both phasers and photon torpedoes from Mr. Spocks science station.
The Starfleet Academy games have the Helmsman (Helmswoman? in this case) tasked with steering the ship and the Navigator is responsible for both navigation (in combination with the Science Officer) and firing weapons (taking the load off the helmsman in a combat situation) an arrangement that makes sense to me.
There is a certain logic to the pilot (aka Flight Control Officer) being a experienced person as they may at times have sole authority over ship's movement (if the Duty Officer is occurpied with other matters), but the TOS-era system of two "co-pilots" would make sense as having a "mentor-student" pairing, the oddity being that the helmsman seems to typically be the more senior person, when logically the helmsman should be the "student" (enlisted/cadet or ensign by preference) and the navigator/weapons officer should be the "mentor" (chief or lieutenant by preference).
There is a certain logic to the pilot (aka Flight Control Officer) being a experienced person as they may at times have sole authority over ship's movement (if the Duty Officer is occurpied with other matters), but the TOS-era system of two "co-pilots" would make sense as having a "mentor-student" pairing, the oddity being that the helmsman seems to typically be the more senior person, when logically the helmsman should be the "student" (enlisted/cadet or ensign by preference) and the navigator/weapons officer should be the "mentor" (chief or lieutenant by preference).
This is one area where I'd argue the Abrams movies arguably nailed it: Pike describing them as "A peacekeeping and humanitarian armada" is a fairly accurate description of Starfleet's quasi-military status.
As per the TOS bible, the ranks were kept as 'flavor', but annoying things like the distinction between enlisted and non-enlisted personnel were downplayed. In theory.
As per the TOS bible, the ranks were kept as 'flavor', but annoying things like the distinction between enlisted and non-enlisted personnel were downplayed. In theory.
I remember Roddenberry's Officer's Lounge in TMP. Anyone could go in there, but lower rank people never did, out of respect. So it wasn't a rule or regulation but functionally it operated the same. Only officers got the nice room with the big windows.As per the TOS bible, the ranks were kept as 'flavor', but annoying things like the distinction between enlisted and non-enlisted personnel were downplayed. In theory.
I always wondered what would happen to the poor schlub who decided he didn't have that much respect and went in anyway.
"Captain on the bridge."
Salutes may no longer have been commonplace in Starfleet. But was the formality of announcing the presence of the captain on the bridge only done on the order or discretion of each ship's commanding officer?
I recall when Jellico took command of the Enterprise, there was at least one scene where Data announced "captain on the bridge". That was when Jellico popped out of the ready room and into the bridge. I don't remember that ever happening for Picard under any circumstance.
It made sense since Jellico seemed more into formalities than Picard.
In TWOK, Sulu announced "Admiral on the bridge", at least once, upon Kirk's entering of the bridge.
In both instances, it was the helmsman that did the announcing. Wonder why that was the case.
The announcement of the presence of the commanding officer gives an air of pomp and circumstance to the entrance. I kind of like that particular formality.
Salutes may no longer have been commonplace in Starfleet. But was the formality of announcing the presence of the captain on the bridge only done on the order or discretion of each ship's commanding officer?
I recall when Jellico took command of the Enterprise, there was at least one scene where Data announced "captain on the bridge". That was when Jellico popped out of the ready room and into the bridge. I don't remember that ever happening for Picard under any circumstance.
It made sense since Jellico seemed more into formalities than Picard.
In TWOK, Sulu announced "Admiral on the bridge", at least once, upon Kirk's entering of the bridge.
In both instances, it was the helmsman that did the announcing. Wonder why that was the case.
The announcement of the presence of the commanding officer gives an air of pomp and circumstance to the entrance. I kind of like that particular formality.
Afraid not. Data was not the Enterprise D's helmsman. Never was. I'm not even sure if there even was an instance of him even at the helm position.
I stand corrected.
I should have said the crewmember who sat on the left side seat of the forward console station(s) of the bridge.
I should have said the crewmember who sat on the left side seat of the forward console station(s) of the bridge.
The r/w announcement of "captain on the bridge" is really a practical matter, not just pomp. It's the Officer of the Deck acknowledging that there is a "higher power" present, and lets everyone on the bridge -- who may be busy doing other things and unable to follow who's coming and going -- know to pay attention because there is someone there who could take the conn and start giving orders. The CO, XO and navigator, with their round-the-clock responsibility for the ship's safe passage, can take the conn from the OOD at any time for any reason.
Of course TOS didn't do that, so when later Treks did it really stuck out.
Just a coincidence.
Im pretty sure those front consoles were interchangeable for the first few episodes. I'm not sure he was ever *intended* to be helmsman, though.
Then again, in the episode, it's supposed to be how it always works. Even when we think it's Sulu pressing the trigger, it's apparently actually him just signaling Phaser Control to fire the guns at their leisure.
That is, when Kirk orders the atypical blanketing fire, Stiles relays this verbally to Phaser Control. But when they more routinely fire at the Romulans after dodging the plasma bolt, it's Sulu silently pressing buttons for starting and stopping. Then it goes back to Stiles giving verbal orders after the incident where Spock presses the wrong button, admittedly after the phasers have taken explicit damage. (And then the system goes down for good and Kirk has to yell directly at Phaser Control to fire.)
A further example of military formality being an optional part of the routines of our heroes? Or a solid technical or tactical reason for applying different procedures even within a single ep?
Timo Saloniemi
Putting aside the issue that he (incorrectly) referred to the Federation rather than Starfleet as an "armada" it's not a horrible description. However, my personnel preference is from Startrek.com
Branch of the United Federation of Planets assigned to the exploration of space and the resulting scientific, diplomatic and defensive duties. Starfleet began as an Earth agency dedicated to space exploration.
ie Starfleet is a uniformed agency of the UFP government tasked with exploration, which includes scientific, diplomatic and defensive duties in support of same.
Again as with the above, IMO a wrong word is used here, when they say 'distinction' I think they (should) mean demarcation, ie the traditional barriers between enlisted and officers no longer exist and socialisation and promotion between the 'rank and file' and 'management' is no longer frowned upon or difficult (beyond the practicalities of learning a broader skillset), which I believe was clearly shown canonically, though more so on TNG or DS9 than TOS ironically.
The Honor Harrington novels (think of it as a more militaristic "real life" star trek) describes the bridge officer actually instructing the computer, via the consoles, to fire the weapons at the targets described. The weapons officer can alternatively "paint" targets or provide more general targeting parameters for the weapons crews to fire - especially useful when the fire control links from the bridge are damaged.
So you can think of Sulu pressing the trigger which tells the weapons room crew where and what to fire; or you can think of it as actually engaging the phasers. Whichever makes you happier!
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