No salutes

[Tenacity]

Putting aside the issue that he (incorrectly) referred to the Federation rather than Starfleet as an "armada"

I have always taken that line to be Pike consciously and acurately saying exactly what he meant, "The Federation is a exploration and defense armada."

As in that's the Federation's primary purpose for existing in the Abrams-universe, that's why it was created in the first place. Anything else is lesser activities that were tacked on later.

Pike didn't say "starfleet" because that's not what he meant to say.

As per the TOS bible, the ranks were kept as 'flavor', but annoying things like the distinction between enlisted and non-enlisted personnel were downplayed.

However the separation and power structure of the current day military are firmly in place.

 

[Tallguy]

I have always taken that line to be Pike consciously and acurately saying exactly what he meant, "The Federation is a exploration and defense armada."

Armada's don't need ambassadors and delegations, do they?

I always figured it was Abram's now legendary problem with nouns.

 

[Timo]

Well, language changes...

But "armada" appears a couple of times in the 24th century in the meaning of a large fleet of threatening ships. So odds are that it's a problem with nouns - but in-universe, it's one that Pike has.

I mean, this is the guy who thinks "Our time warp, factor seven" is an informative phrase.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

I remember Roddenberry's Officer's Lounge in TMP. Anyone could go in there, but lower rank people never did, out of respect. So it wasn't a rule or regulation but functionally it operated the same. Only officers got the nice room with the big windows.

I always wondered what would happen to the poor schlub who decided he didn't have that much respect and went in anyway.

Thankfully by TNG era everyone was allowed in Ten Forward which makes sense. The distinction between officers and enlisted personnel is a human tradition based on nothing more than classism from a feudal era that other species might not have or want to recognise.

 

[danellis]

Then again, in the episode, it's supposed to be how it always works. Even when we think it's Sulu pressing the trigger, it's apparently actually him just signaling Phaser Control to fire the guns at their leisure.
..
A further example of military formality being an optional part of the routines of our heroes? Or a solid technical or tactical reason for applying different procedures even within a single ep?

Timo Saloniemi

Could it be the difference between a single shot which Sulu can control and a specific multi-weapon burst that has to be controlled from a dedicated control centre?

Alternatively, does phaser control have to set up a fire routine and Sulu can then press the button to let off that routine before giving instructions to phaser control to set up the next battery which Sulu then releases?

Thankfully by TNG era everyone was allowed in Ten Forward which makes sense. The distinction between officers and enlisted personnel is a human tradition based on nothing more than classism from a feudal era that other species might not have or want to recognise.

Except that Ten Forward is not a formal part of the "ship's facilities," it amounts to a public place that anyone: officers, enlisted men, onboard scientists, families of crew members, or even random wanderers they've picked up for Riker to play with can go to at will. For all we know there's a baroque-decorated, gold-plated, Officer's Lounge on one side and a filthy Private's Mess the other side where they all have to drink out of plastic cups and eat off paper plates.

dJE

 

[Timo]

We never heard of a place on the E-D where everybody could not go at will. We see kids infesting the conference room immediately behind the bridge and wandering around main engineering. If there still existed a phaser control center, I'm sure the kids would love pushing buttons there in the afternoon, too...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rrune]

 

[danellis]

I don't recognise the middle one, but the other two are both in-universe ironic.

dJE

 

[Tenacity]

I don't recognise the middle one

A cut scene from Balance of Terror.

And then there's this.

 

[The Wormhole]

We never heard of a place on the E-D where everybody could not go at will. We see kids infesting the conference room immediately behind the bridge and wandering around main engineering. If there still existed a phaser control center, I'm sure the kids would love pushing buttons there in the afternoon, too...

Timo Saloniemi

Worf did get after the girl in Imaginary Friend for wandering the corridors of the engineering deck. Though, by "getting after" I really mean "please leave this deck and I will pretend this didn't happen."

 

[Tenacity]

Armada's don't need ambassadors and delegations, do they?

Armada as in intractable or a unstoppable essence.

 

[Mojochi]

Deleted scene

Mock salutes

And then there's this.

Promotional still.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Yeah, my understanding is that saluting is a deprecated thing, possibly replaced with standing at attention and perhaps a head nod or so, in the most formal environments (starship duty, as practiced by Kirk and Picard, can be very informal, however).

Kirk, Picard, Crusher, and possibly Rand are familiar with the old Earth custom of saluting, and are only doing so as a joke or an ancient act of respect in the case of Balance of Terror.

Alternatively, it could be that saluting was brought back after Captain Archer's time, and was still practiced up until some point after Kirk's youth, but prior to the Discovery/TOS era. So, Kirk was trained to salute, but it was rare or maybe policy not to do so after his training, and he ignored it when saluting the Romulan Commander (as a fellow captain) and Admiral Bob (as a close friend yet superior).

 

[Rrune]

Salutes in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan script

The doors open. Kirk and his staff are piped aboard by an electronic version of the boatswain's traditional whistle. Kirk salutes the Federation symbol and steps forward to exchange salutes with Spock.

[. . .]

PRESTON (breathless): Midshipman First Class Peter Preston, engineers mate, SIR.

A big salute. Kirk is amused, returns the salute.

[. . .]

SCOTTY: Aye, sir.

He moves off, followed by Preston, who gives one last salute as Kirk leaves, followed by Bones.

[. . .]

SULU: Honors -- hup!

All Starfleet personnel salute. Scotty begins to PIPE, an odd blare which mellows into Amazing Grace. Kirk nods a signal.

[. . .]

SULU: Return -- hup!

The salute drop.

KIRK: Lieutenant.

She [Saavik] steps to him and they exchange salutes.

[. . .]

KIRK (aloud): Dismiss the company.

They salute.​

Salutes in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country script

KIRK: As you were. Lieutenant...?

LT. SAAVIK: Saavik, sir. We were told you'd need a helmsman - (to Spock) ... so I volunteered.

She salutes. He smiles, returns the salute.

[. . .]

CHANG (grins): "Parting is such sweet sorrow, shall we say goodnight till it be morrow?"

Kirk is ready to slug him but turns his fist into a SALUTE.

[. . .]

SULU: You having hearing problems, mister?

OFFICER: No, sir.

The man salutes and leaves. Sulu stays awake.​

Robert Fletcher’s Costume Design - Forgotten Trek

"OK, if this is going to be the navy, let’s hem them look like the navy; they shouldn’t be walking around in pyjamas."​

 

[trekshark]

They don't have bugle calls either. Some shit just goes extinct

but they do still use bosun's whistles

 

[robau]

I have always taken that line to be Pike consciously and acurately saying exactly what he meant, "The Federation is a exploration and defense armada."

As in that's the Federation's primary purpose for existing in the Abrams-universe, that's why it was created in the first place. Anything else is lesser activities that were tacked on later.

Pike didn't say "starfleet" because that's not what he meant to say.However the separation and power structure of the current day military are firmly in place.

He wasn’t asking Kirk to join the Federation though.

 

[Rrune]

Mock salutes

The one from TFF may appear informal but it was not a mock salute.

KIRK: Have the Klingons responded?
BOB (on viewscreen): No, but you can bet they will.
KIRK: Understood. Kirk out. Plot course to Nimbus Three, Mister Sulu.​

Consider the context.

 

[Shawnster]

Armada as in intractable or a unstoppable essence.

So Pike was literally speaking figuratively.

 

[J.T.B.]

Armada as in intractable or a unstoppable essence.

That would be novel usage. "Armada" is Spanish for navy, and in English means a fleet of warships (Merriam-Webster). Or, some kind of group that more figuratively resembles a fleet of warships.

Salutes in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan script

The fact that every one of those were cut from the final product is pretty telling.

"OK, if this is going to be the navy, let’s hem them look like the navy; they shouldn’t be walking around in pyjamas."

With respect to Nicholas Meyer, I've never thought much of the "pajamas" line of thinking. Once century's casual wear is another century's formal wear. And look like what navy? TWOK doesn't look like a real navy any more than TMP did.

 

[Tallguy]

Again, I never got why people seem to think that the TWOK uniforms are more "military" than the TMP ones. In 1979 I thought the TMP uniforms looked pretty military - i.e. serious. I thought the flat grays and whites of TMP looked a heck of a lot more military that the monster maroons.

To be fair, with the wide variety of uniforms in TMP, a few looked more like pajamas than others.