Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

[Bry_Sinclair]

I was mostly disappointed with Voyager. There were some good moments, but the show suffered badly from studio intervention, which never allowed it to grow organically, leaving it stilted and limited. Looking at the likes of BSG and SGU, where crews were struggling to get by and where what happened in previous episodes and seasons impacted on what came next gave them a much greater sense of jeopardy and peril, that these people might not all make it out in one piece.

The show also suffers from something common in most Trek series, over-saturation of human characters, who often come across as dull and uninteresting.

 

[Paradise City]

There was character development and some mighty fine episodes. It's a solid fist of a series all-in-all. Tuvok is a legitimately cool character for example.

But I do think there was plenty of untapped potential and the crew usually didn't seem more uncomfortable nor put out than in TNG. Great swathes of Voyager seem like TNG redux frankly. Having to eat Neelix' broth is not exactly injecting the series with a sense of extreme deprivation that might otherwise occur in a ship alone encountering these hostile species.

I don't want it to be necessarily as bleak and as dire as things got in Year of Hell or with the Equinox where the lights are never on and there's nothing but darkness and debris. But a creative push towards giving the series a sense of constant emergency would've given it that extra edge, imo. There's probably too many seasons of it as well.

 

[Trekboy1993]

I'd put this into the "no" box.
And this into the "myth" bin
For this, I would say Voyager could be just as gritty as DS9, and often was. And DS9 was just as often as silly as Voyager. In effect, the suppositions cancel out each other. Both shows had a similar balance of tones, and story types. I would give Voyager the slight edge for genre exploration.

What we need was a full season of Year of Hell or Equinox that is how the ship should have always looked. Beat up and torn down with the crew starving and dirty.

 

[TrekkieRiker]

Voyager is my favorite Trek series I've seen so far...

Well actually my own 2 best favorites are Voyager and TNG (Followed by the others, hard to say which of them would come number 3,4 etc. They are all as good as the other, but in different ways.)

 

[TrekkieRiker]

I think enough time has passed that anyone still posting on a Trek board is a lot more likely to like Voyager.

The impression in the general population is uninspired characters, some of which are annoying, and mediocre standard of writing content to stay in its predecessors’ shadow.

It’s also easier to like Voyager now that you know which eps to skip and can laugh more and the sheer ridiculousness of the series low points.

"General population"... Well I like voyager a lot and have heard such remarks by others, about the characters changing personality here and there from episode to episode. With a lack of coonsistency. When I watch Voyager, I can only disagree with that claim! The characters are great and I found no such inconsistency.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

More than the supposed hateful, I think that the disappointment and misunderstanding were for some ST fans, very deep and maybe too deep to be able to put things into perspective.
On 3 ST series made between 1993 to 2005, it seems obvious that the right has rubbed the wrong with more wrongs than rights at the end. It would have made more sense to take a step back between each series to reinvent a new universe instead of repeating the same stories with the same type of characters - only faces are different - with the risk of making the same mistakes.
-> Berman and Paramount only wanted to last in time just to mark the history of television.

When I think to Voyager, I have an unfinished look about stories (Endgame, for ex); characters (too much into caricature for all of them -> there was no true development in 7 years althrough some attemps but at the end, there was always a comeback to what they were); too much focus on some species like Kazons and Hirogens through uninteresting arcs while some others alien characters were much more fascinating as well for themselves as for our characters... ; too many inconsistencies : about the way our characters sometimes acted and felt ; about the general state of Voyager and the crew -> although the varied violent attacks and other events, the vessel was always like new over the years and the crew always safe and sound at the end of each episode minus 15-20 accidental casualities in 7 years! And what to say about senior officers who never suffered something serious)...
Seriously, some realism would not hurt!

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

That being said, I like Voyager (even if I can't trully compare with others series made before and after, as seing as I was never really interested to follow them), as a great majority of its characters & casting.
Some issues were really interesting but there was too much stories about/around temporal jumps or virtual events... .

 

[Jonesy]

I just finished watching Voyager through for the first time (I have seen sporadic episodes throughout the years). I can say very comfortably that, in my view, it's a step down from what TNG and DS9 established. With that said, there were some really great episodes that were done on the show. However, what I felt many many times throughout the show is the feeling that if they had tweaked some episodes in one direction or another, so many of them would've been better. I also felt that if they had focused the dilemma on the characters, rather than the alien of the week, it would've been a better show.

To give an example in the latter seasons, the episode "Repentance" was an interesting concept for an episode. (Spoilers ahead big time) But, I kept wondering throughout the episode why it wasn't about Seven. It would've been far far more interesting to see Seven be the one to have her sense of control stripped away and to confront the memories and remorse of being a Borg without any of her steely self control intact. Have it be Seven's equivalent of Spock's breakdown on "The Naked Time" (and not one of those overused "Seven Becomes A Borg Again For 42 Minutes") Instead, it was an episode about your random alien of the week who will have no bearing on the show going forward.

Even in an episode like "Equinox", again it is not about our Voyager characters. It is just another disposable ship (because you know they will be blown out of the sky or sucked into a void by the end) or crew that mirrored what Voyager could've become and the entire point of the episode is for Janeway and her crew to show the other crew How Wrong They Are. It would've been more interesting to see Janeway be put into the position of following through on a morally questionable decision (with no reset button push) that perhaps would've had long lasting effects or an episode revisit. Let it be her "Pale Moonlight" or BOBW episode.

"Year of Hell" is a fantastic episode (does the Sam Rockwell "Two Parter" hand sign) ....but....it's a big reset button push on the end. It could've been played out just as successfully (and perhaps more interestingly) as a dream sequence by Janeway or one of the crew, or even as a holodeck episode gone awry. Like has been said many, many times before, it is exactly what Voyager should've been, and that makes it that much more frustrating to watch, particularly with the reset push.

A noteworthy (and surprising) example of it all was Old Janeway confronting her past version in "Endgame", and belittling her about her self righteous nature. I couldn't help but think that this was surprising that the writers were focusing on such a significant character flaw in the show's finale. Instead of showcasing the strengths of Janeway (NOT her old alternate universe self, which is just a Deus Ex Machina sort of thing) and her crew to bring a strong resolution to the finale (like Picard did in figuring out Q's puzzle in AGT or Sisko confronting Dukat in WYLB) it was instead a finale episode about Alternate Universe Old Janeway going back in time and practically slapping her Delta Quadrant equivalent across the forehead over and over in order to get the crew home.

 

[MacLeod]

That's quite a spectrum...isn't that true for pretty much every show ever made?

Yes, but the issue is with people at both ends of the extreme often those that hate or love something only see the bad or good.

 

[TrekkieRiker]

Yes, but the issue is with people at both ends of the extreme often those that hate or love something only see the bad or good.

Well I have some trouble about liking Enterprise or DS9. But I do not hate the shows, no. They just contain fewer percentage of material I find good personally. But "bad" is nothing that can describe anything about Star Trek ever.

 

[BillJ]

I don't think most Trek fans hate Voyager. I think there's likely a good portion who are just indifferent to it.

 

[Vger23]

I certainly don't "hate" Voyager. I'm a Star Trek fan, and there's honestly no single element of the franchise that falls below the "like" line for me. I'm in the middle of a "re-watch/first watch" right now (I probably only saw 25% of the show first run, as it didn't appeal to me almost right out of the gate), and I find it far more enjoyable now than I did back in the 90's. While I count it as far-and-away my least-favorite Star Trek series...I still like it and think it is entertaining and fun.

That said, I think there are a number of things to say about VOY that are worthy of consideration in terms of the fan perspective on it.

First, I think that VOY didn't play particularly well at that time in franchise history. From my perspective, watching it now 20 years removed from it's run date, it is a worthy and entertaining element of this big franchise. But, back at the time it was airing, it was definitely considered "more of the same" with regard to the TOS and TNG formula...and "replicative fading" was thought to have set in, meaning that it felt like it was not only "more of the same," but it was of a lower quality in terms of characters and storytelling. I think that hurt it at that time in franchise history.

Second, it ran concurrent with DS9 for several years...and DS9 was not "more of the same." So, this made VOY's repetitiveness of format stand out even more boldly and made it feel even more inferior to what had come before.

Third, they did not do a very good job with establishing the same iconic characters that had been established previously. While the characters were all "fine" and "likable..." there was really nobody who was as iconic or appealing as some of what had come before. Again, at that time, it all felt a little redundant.

Fourth, the episodic storytelling at that time was getting a little dated. DS9 had adapted a semi-serialized approach to telling Star Trek stories, and VOY felt like a big step back in terms of maturity of storytelling. To make matters worse, what VOY did attempt to pass off as arcs were more soap-opera inspired than they were anything approaching engaging long-term stories. Most of the episodes therefore either felt very small and self-contained with too-rapid a wrap-up (like The Orville currently feels), or they were epic, huge deals that were forced to be "reset" or "forgotten" as a result of simply not having the format to do a more expansive and lasting exploration of a really good story idea. The show leaned more toward "safe" than was in style or desired at that time.

I think all of this, combined with the over-reliance on holodeck stories, reset buttons, and anomaly of the week stories made the series a lot weaker than its stated premise would have initially led you to believe.

But again, this is still a good show. It has some brilliant moments and I've enjoyed getting into it again (for the first time really). It just happens to be my least-favorite (notice I didn't say "worst") show in the franchise.

 

[Trekboy1993]

But a Soap Oprea is a long forming story arc

 

[STEPhon IT]

It's a show that had so much potential but wasted it away on silly story lines, reset after reset, no damage to the ship, no character development, put a leash on the writers. Voyager should have been even more gritty than DS9 or dare I say Enterprise.

Geez! Is that what Voyager needed??? More grit??? It's sad to read the thinking of some Trekfans who can't register that gritty is a complete f^ck you to the concept of Star Trek. After the huge success from TNG where it had zero grit relaunched the franchise to new heights, for some reason when a Trek show is failing like DS9, Voy, and Ent. the only solution to fix the problem is make it gritty.

TOS and TNG had less than a hand full of grit, but these spin-offs heavily depended on it. Look at Discovery, it's Star Trek in name only. Grit was not the answer for Voyager, what it needed was to boldly go where no man has gone before. Push the imagination to new heights, explore stories which will propel the characters and not being attacked by hostile alien forces every week. Maybe my optimistic thinking of Trek is naive because I have more estrogen than testosterone, but a ship smaller than the Enterprise battling huber alien vessels every week is exhausting, and not very practical according to the original concept for the series.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Second, it ran concurrent with DS9 for several years...and DS9 was not "more of the same." So, this made VOY's repetitiveness of format stand out even more boldly and made it feel even more inferior to what had come before.

Really??? DS9 brought back the Klingons in full force, brought back the Romulans, and had the remaining War in the Alpha Quadrant because the wormhole was mined. This eliminated any attempt to explore the Gamma Quadrant something which was integral to the uniqueness of DS9. The Dominion officially became the substitute big baddie from the Borg; the show became "The Best of Both Worlds" the TV series. Oh! Worf became a cast member and the producers found a way to bring back TOS in a Forrest Gump type gimmick. Not "more of the same." indeed.

 

[flandry84]

Voyager had the potential to be great but obviously the studio wanted a safe,stable show to fill the TNG void.
Weak casting and a deadening cleaving to the reset button didn’t help.
I don’t hate Voyager but I have no affection for it.

 

[Prax]

So many generalized statements left unqualified.

I'm feeling awfully tempted to start preaching to the error of your tastes.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Voyager had the potential to be great but obviously the studio wanted a safe,stable show to fill the TNG void.
Weak casting and a deadening cleaving to the reset button didn’t help.
I don’t hate Voyager but I have no affection for it.

Voyager was many things, but it wasn't safe. I honestly felt the writers wished Voyager was not set in the Delta Quadrant and pretended at times their weren't.

 

[Trekboy1993]

Geez! Is that what Voyager needed??? More grit??? It's sad to read the thinking of some Trekfans who can't register that gritty is a complete f^ck you to the concept of Star Trek. After the huge success from TNG where it had zero grit relaunched the franchise to new heights, for some reason when a Trek show is failing like DS9, Voy, and Ent. the only solution to fix the problem is make it gritty.

TOS and TNG had less than a hand full of grit, but these spin-offs heavily depended on it. Look at Discovery, it's Star Trek in name only. Grit was not the answer for Voyager, what it needed was to boldly go where no man has gone before. Push the imagination to new heights, explore stories which will propel the characters and not being attacked by hostile alien forces every week. Maybe my optimistic thinking of Trek is naive because I have more estrogen than testosterone, but a ship smaller than the Enterprise battling huber alien vessels every week is exhausting, and not very practical according to the original concept for the series.

So you're telling me a ship decades away from home and supplies, with 2 groups of people who should have been at each others throats shouldn't have been gritty and dark? Voyager was more of the same you could replace Voyagers characters for TNG and the stories would be the same. Year of Hell was how that show should have always been written. What we got was a watered down show no one really talks about anymore. We need story arcs, character development. And to know that even in Stark Trek everything is not all hunky dory.

 

[Prax]

They're decades away from home, not decades away from supplies.

The Maquis had an enemy, but it wasn't Starfleet. Many of them were from Starfleet, and many more members of Starfleet sympathized with them.

Nonetheless, not every Maquis had a background in Starfleet, and had trouble adjusting. This was addressed quite a bit in the show's first 2-3 seasons, from the misfits that Tuvok helps, to B'elanna's issues, to Seska, and Jonas, to Sudor.

"They should have been at each others throats" -People don't act like that, especially not in a structured military environment, with a goal orientated routine. And if they did, who would want to watch that kind of immaturity? Janeway and Chakotay were mom and dad to the ship.