Does it annoy anyone else that people expect you to be hardcore liberal if you're a Trekkie

[Markonian]

From a European perspective, Clinton was the sensible candidate in every regard. She is being denigrated because she was a serious female candidate. Anything she did wrong was analyses publicly, and none of it impeded her capacity to be president.

But hey, finally Germany gets to be leader of the free world. Praise be to the Chancellor!

 

[Australis]

Hilary would have been the smarter choice, no matter what you say.

 

[MacLeod]

From a European perspective, Clinton was the sensible candidate in every regard. She is being denigrated because she was a serious female candidate. Anything she did wrong was analyses publicly, and none of it impeded her capacity to be president.

But hey, finally Germany gets to be leader of the free world. Praise be to the Chancellor!

From a European perspective the US Democratic Party is probable closer to most peoples political viewpoints.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/31/europe-would-elect-hillary-clinton-landslide/

Hilary would have been the smarter choice, no matter what you say.

Most definitely.

 

[theblitz]

Hilary would have been the smarter choice, no matter what you say.

The same Hilary who had total distain for he voters that she didn't even bother to turn up.
Just imagine what the reaction would have been if it was the other way around.

Someone's whose total battle call was "Vote for me because it's time a woman won" and "vote for me cos I am not him" cannot then complain when she loses.
It was okay for her to play the sex card and then complain when people ignored it?
The fact that so many women voted against her just proves that it was not sexist reasons.

 

[theblitz]

From a European perspective, Clinton was the sensible candidate in every regard. She is being denigrated because she was a serious female candidate. Anything she did wrong was analyses publicly, and none of it impeded her capacity to be president.

But hey, finally Germany gets to be leader of the free world. Praise be to the Chancellor!

The thing is that you simply cannot compare voters in one country to those in others.

She lost not because she is a woman but despite the fact that she is one. She expected all the he woman to vote for her (sexist?) and has said she will never forgive the women who didn't vote for her.

You can't play the sex card and then complain about it.

She showed total distain for the blue collar workers. The important people to her were all he Wall Street moguls who financed her run.

 

[BillJ]

Someone's whose total battle call was "Vote for me because it's time a woman won" and "vote for me cos I am not him" cannot then complain when she loses.

Well, she did win the popular vote by nearly three million...

I imagine if Trump had won by three million votes and lost the White House because of the Electoral College, Conservatives would've been screaming about Hilary being an illegitimate president.

 

[theblitz]

Well, she did win the popular vote by nearly three million...

I imagine if Trump had won by three million votes and lost the White House because of the Electoral College, Conservatives would've been screaming about Hilary being an illegitimate president.

Probably.
Though I doubt there would have been roots where people were dumb enough to burn their own neighbourhood. And I doubt they would be screaming at the sky.
However, the system was created to prevent exactly that situation. Where two states (NY and California) would totally dominate the others.
At the end of the day, that's the system every "agreed". There is no way to know what would have happened if it was decided by popular votes. Loads of people in "safe states" don't vote because they consider it a waste of time.

 

[BillJ]

Though I doubt there would have been roots where people were dumb enough to burn their own neighbourhood. And I doubt they would be screaming at the sky.

I don't remember any riots, but hey... I do remember a two-term President who won both the popular vote and electoral vote having his agenda blocked by a Republican Congress.

At the end of the day, that's the system every "agreed".

I didn't agree to it. I didn't agree to have my vote count less than someone who is from a smaller state...

Why should a vote from New York or California count less than a vote from Nebraska or Ohio? Are they somehow lesser Americans?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Trump is beyond sleaze. He is literally the worst person ever to become President and we have had slave owners in that job.

Well, maybe of recent times, but it's kind of hard to compete with earlier presidents like Trump's personal hero (which says a lot), Andrew Jackson. Trump's pretty awful in a modern context, but he hasn't committed genocide and ethnic cleansing, owned numerous slaves, invaded another country's territory to chase down runaway slaves (provoking the Seminole War), executed his own troops and (likely innocent) foreign nationals for minor violations, and brutally ruled New Orleans as a tyrannical military governor. He's totally the type of person who would have done shit like that had he been alive and in power back then, though, so we should be grateful the world is a better place now.

 

[Discofan]

Well, maybe of recent times, but it's kind of hard to compete with earlier presidents like Trump's personal hero (which says a lot), Andrew Jackson. Trump's pretty awful in a modern context, but he hasn't committed genocide and ethnic cleansing, owned numerous slaves, invaded another country's territory to chase down runaway slaves (provoking the Seminole War), executed his own troops and (likely innocent) foreign nationals for minor violations, and brutally ruled New Orleans as a tyrannical military governor. He's totally the type of person who would have done shit like that had he been alive and in power back then, though, so we should be grateful the world is a better place now.

To be fair we don't know what Trump would have done in the same context. I just hope that we'll never find out.

 

[Nyotarules]

To be fair we don't know what Trump would have done in the same context. I just hope that we'll never find out.

Entitled, white, rich males in the 21st century would still act like entitled, white, rich males in the 18th and 19th.

 

[theblitz]

Entitled, white, rich males in the 21st century would still act like entitled, white, rich males in the 18th and 19th.

As opposed to pampered, white females who cried because they didn't get there way.

 

[theblitz]

I don't remember any riots, but hey... I do remember a two-term President who won both the popular vote and electoral vote having his agenda blocked by a Republican Congress.



I didn't agree to it. I didn't agree to have my vote count less than someone who is from a smaller state...

Why should a vote from New York or California count less than a vote from Nebraska or Ohio? Are they somehow lesser Americans?

You seriously don't remember the riots? Where were you the days after the election?

Yes, Obama won 2 terms. He even had a filibuster-proof Senate and still avoided a lot of unpopular stuff.

At the end of the day, the fact is that it is very rare that a party wins three consecutive presidential election. The last time was way back with Bush senior after the Reagan sweep.

The point of one vote being worth less than another works both ways. Any GOP voters in Dem states find their vote wasted and vice versa.
Is this perfect? Maybe not. But it is the system that has been used for over 200 years and is very unlikely to change.

Besides, as I said, a different system would have resulted in a different outcome.any people don't vote (on both sides) because they see it as a waste of time.

Finally, the Dems forgot who they were meant to be representing. They had total disdain for blue collar workers. That's why they lost.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

To be fair we don't know what Trump would have done in the same context.

I was being fair when I said he wasn't as bad as Andrew Jackson because we live in a different time (and also because unlike Trump, Jackson was actually competent, just unfortunately in an evil way). That's the limit of my charity toward the man.

He praises dictators and their tyrannical policies like executing drug dealers and banning the free press, wishing he could do the same here. He praises Nazis and other white supremacists as "good people" as they run peaceful protestors down in the streets for wanting to remove Confederate statues. He attacks the families of dead veterans. He treats Mexicans and black people like criminals and refers to other countries as "shitholes". He ignores Native American concerns about environmental damage to their lands to open a pipeline. He shirks his debts and mistreats his employees and sexually assaults and harasses women. I would have to write a book to list all his misdeeds but it's well documented, so I feel perfectly confident in saying he would fit right in as an early 19th century piece of shit, because he's an early 21st century piece of shit who admires both modern and past pieces of shit.

 

[BillJ]

As opposed to pampered, white females who cried because they didn't get there way.

Nothing like insulting another group of people to take attention away from the wrongs a group commits.

 

[theblitz]

He praises dictators and their tyrannical policies like executing drug dealers

You mean like praising Castro. Oh wait. That wasn't him.

An, Tbh, I have no problem executing drug dealers Even Singapore do it.

 

[Marc]

An, Tbh, I have no problem executing drug dealers Even Singapore do it.

There's a difference between having a fair trial as Singapore does vs the extra-judicial killings that duertes advocates and which trump is supportive of which opens the way for massive abuses.

Oh and Obama had a veto proof majority for a period of 2 months or so.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'm as guilty of this as anyone else, but since this thread has long since abandoned having anything to do with discussing political expectations of Trekkies by others in favor of being a political pissing match, and since the OP just lobbed the grenade and hasn't even returned since the first couple pages, which I'm pretty sure was the point, I'm going to shut this down. I'll leave it open for another few hours in case anyone wants to get a final word in edgewise.

ETA:

You mean like praising Castro. Oh wait. That wasn't him.

It wasn't Obama either. Giving condolences to the family and seeking peace after fifty-five years of failed policy is not praise. I don't fault Trump for agreeing to meet with Kim Jong-un either, though I'm worried as hell about what might happen. But who the hell knows, maybe crazy meets crazier might get something done, not that I'm placing any bets on it.

An, Tbh, I have no problem executing drug dealers Even Singapore do it.

Singapore is not a great model for criminal justice, not that we are much of one either. Jeff Sessions thinks legalized pot dealers should still be prosecuted on federal charges, so would you like to see pot dealers executed? Not that I think there's likely any chance of that happening, but that's the kind of thing you're opening the door for.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Trump has proven that many Americans would support a fascist government, thankfully he cares more about his own ego than actual power. But he did reveal that many Americans not only support but start demanding that America prevent certain minorities emigrating to America, taking away the most basic of rights from LGBTQ Americans and executing people over minor crimes.

 

[Nyotarules]

Trump has proven that many Americans would support a fascist government, thankfully he cares more about his own ego than actual power. But he did reveal that many Americans not only support but start demanding that America prevent certain minorities emigrating to America, taking away the most basic of rights from LGBTQ Americans and executing people over minor crimes.

Such folks are happy with fascism until its used against them, by then its too late. The person who wrote the poem 'First they came' sums up those type of people nicely.