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Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

Is it?

  • Yes, that's the official word and it still fits

    Votes: 194 44.7%
  • Yes, but it's borderline at this point

    Votes: 44 10.1%
  • No, there's just too many inconsistencies

    Votes: 147 33.9%
  • I don't care about continuity, just the show's quality

    Votes: 49 11.3%

  • Total voters
    434
Voq Tyler was a one off failure and the process was discarded immediately after. Darvin being the same process as Voq Tyler is an extremely idiotic retcon and does not deserve to be entertained one second further.
Sure it does. We're Star Trek fans. :D
Right. That's all it was. Because the people who'd gone to incredible effort and expense to painstakingly re-create the look of TOS for the sake of an affectionate episode-long homage obviously just wanted to point and laugh at it with disdain. :rolleyes:
Yup. That's pretty much it.
I remember the days before the Augment storyline. When we had no answer to how the Klingons changed appearances. I couldn't sleep some nights. It was maddening. How can I make sense of this fictional universe? I how can I live with myself?

HOW CAN I???
I have no idea, because I still can't sleep...I didn't watch ENT so I still don't know O_O
 
Well, yeah, that was my point. The Augment virus would explain them nice-and-easy. Retcon that away, though, as MM clearly wants to do, and they remain unexplained.

To each their own.

Yeah, I'm unconvinced....Long story short (too late? ;)), the only hard-and-fast chronological relationships between TOS episodes and original-crew movies are (A) TWOK happens fifteen years after "Space Seed," and (B) STV:TFF happens at least 20 years after the end of season one (since the Nimbus III colony could not logically have been established until after the Romulans were back on the scene in "Balance of Terror," and the Klingons had been reigned in by the Organian peace treaty in "Errand of Mercy"). It has always struck me as quixotic to disregard one of those relationships for the sake of otherwise completely arbitrary dating conventions and far more ambiguous evidence. FWIW, in my own timeline (headcanon of course, but very detailed) I place these two films in 2283 and 2287 respectively, with a significant time gap between movies 4 and 5.

I do agree that the article shows that there's a bit of a mess. However, that does seem par for the course, to an extent; official reference material still dates TMP as being in 2271, despite "Q2" (VOY) saying that TOS/TAS ended in 2270 (instead of 2269, which was how the '71 date was computed), and that, coupled Kirk's comment that it's been 2 1/2 years since the TOS/TAS mission, actually places TMP in 2273.

Neither were the TMP Klingons, yet they were accepted. As much as Klingons are accepted and established in TNG going forward, they are not as well known in TOS. GR attempted to avoid them due to feeling they were too "one note."

Honestly, it would be nice if "new design=alternative universe" wouldn't be the knee-jerk reaction to change.

Well, we didn't see much of Klingon culture in TOS, so TMP wasn't has huge of a stretch as DSC, where we now know enough to see problems (e.g. expansion vs. changing stuff already established, if that makes any sense).
 
Well, we didn't see much of Klingon culture in TOS, so TMP wasn't has huge of a stretch as DSC, where we now know enough to see problems (e.g. expansion vs. changing stuff already established, if that makes any sense).
Honestly, it really doesn't. If the TOS era is largely unexplored, then how is DISCO somehow violating what really isn't known? Same with Starfleet. We didn't seen the entirety of Starfleet, so much so that Franz Joseph, and FASA came up with a huge variety of starships to fill in the gaps.
 
The Ash stoyline simply does not work if the arguments happened.
Considering the Augment storyline in ENT is vastly superior to any episode or Story told in Discovery and did far more to flesh out the Klingon race and Voq/Ash storyline was complete and utter garbage. I'm fine with just ignoring Discovery from the Prime timeline.

If you ask most fans to pick between ENT and Discovery, I think you're going to find Discovery ending up in the trash, alot.
 
Well, with caveats (at least for this fan). I'd take DSC over ENT seasons 1-3 (or over any of VOY, for that matter). On the other hand, I would indeed take ENT season 4 over what we've seen of DSC so far.
 
Considering the Augment storyline in ENT is vastly superior to any episode or Story told in Discovery and did far more to flesh out the Klingon race and Voq/Ash storyline was complete and utter garbage. I'm fine with just ignoring Discovery from the Prime timeline.

If you ask most fans to pick between ENT and Discovery, I think you're going to find Discovery ending up in the trash, alot.


Dsc is newer, so its retcon is more recent, so its retcon, not the horrid ENT retcon, wins.

Thems the breaks
 
TOS>ENT>DSC>TNG>DS9>VOY

My current order of preference (though I actually like much of all of them—simply reflects my preference based upon good to bad episode ratio as far as “I’m entertained” goes).

Based on what I read around here, though, I suspect I’ve a far more positive view of Trek as a whole than many others.

And it’s ALL Prime. (Because I said so. :p )
 
I do agree that the article shows that there's a bit of a mess. However, that does seem par for the course, to an extent; official reference material still dates TMP as being in 2271, despite "Q2" (VOY) saying that TOS/TAS ended in 2270 (instead of 2269, which was how the '71 date was computed), and that, coupled Kirk's comment that it's been 2 1/2 years since the TOS/TAS mission, actually places TMP in 2273.

This is true. TMP does take place in 2273, twelve years before the events in TWOK. Kirk is forty years old in the original film and has just turned fifty-two in the next movie. As much as we might dislike VOY or the episode "Q2" in particular Icheb's historical recitation to Janeway is onscreen canon and the five-year mission that was depicted in TOS lasted from 2265-70.
 
ENT is actually the very reason why I'm not giving up on DISCO like so many others have. In its initial run, I dropped out after 9 episodes in its first season. It wasn't a conscious decision, I just forgot about it and only realized sometime afterward that I didn't care about missing new episodes. That happened with VOY as well.

Years later, a few months after cancellation, one of my affiliates was airing reruns. Curiously, they were only airing the fourth season episodes starting with "Borderland". I heard good stuff about the fourth season but never got around to catching any of it. As I progressed, I was shocked to find myself enjoying it. It was Trek I was enjoying on par with the best of TOS/TNG/DS9. Where did THIS show come from?

I don't hate DISCO, but I don't love it either. But if TNG and ENT taught me something, it's that if I don't think the first season is all that great, I may get a better one down the road as it grows. Nothing guaranteed, of course. VOY never really hit a long stride for me
 
If you ask most fans to pick between ENT and Discovery, I think you're going to find Discovery ending up in the trash, alot.
To be fair, that's mostly because Trek fans are a contrarian bunch who eternally hate the current product until the next one comes along and suddenly what came before is the new "True Star Trek." It's been that way for nearly forty years now. TMP wasn't True Star Trek until TWOK came along, which wasn't True Trek until TNG debuted. Then that wasn't True Trek until DS9, which wasn't True Trek until Voyager, and that became True when Enterprise premiered. Enterprise joined the pantheon of True Trek when Trek XI came out, and the Kelvin Timeline is True Trek now that Disco is on the scene. Disco will be True Trek when the next iteration of the franchise comes out, sure enough.
Dsc is newer, so its retcon is more recent, so its retcon, not the horrid ENT retcon, wins.

Thems the breaks
That really isn't how retconning works. At all. That's overwriting, not retconning.
 
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