Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[zenophite]

Nah it's not the prime universe of TOS but I can't say that really matters much does it?

 

[Hythlodeus]

Nah it's not the prime universe of TOS

I see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't be the PU

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Great Charlie Jade av, @zenophite.

 

[F. King Daniel]

TMP was only 3 years between the events of TOS by some source. So, 3 years is enough time for Starfleet to adopt entirely new uniforms, new department coloring and logos, as well as strip the Enterprise down to it's keel and then build it back up?

But, ten years between DISCO and TOS isn't enough time? That's not "wiggle room?"

There's also the question of believability. They rebuilt the Enterprise between The Cage and DSC, put it back for TOS, then put it closer to how it was inbetween for TMP? Yeah ok.

As for Klingons, why should the Klingons be limited to only certain types of ships? T'Kumva's movement was involving the leadership of 24 "Great Houses" so perhaps those ships were far more personalized by the houses at the time?

And not one of those 24 houses ships resembled anything we'd seen before. The real reason is, of course, that they deliberately changed how everything looks with no attempt to make it fit.

Also, equally ridiculous is the fact that Klingon ships haven't changed from ENT to DS9.

Fair enough, but it's a look that's been established for a half-century before DSC.

I do wish ENT did a Han Solo/Falcon thing where the D7 and Bird of Prey were shiny and new, and over time they became the old rustbuckets of the TOS movies and beyond.

 

[fireproof78]

There's also the question of believability. They rebuilt the Enterprise between The Cage and DSC, put it back for TOS, then put it closer to how it was inbetween for TMP? Yeah ok.

If TMP is acceptable then so is DISCO in my eyes.

And not one of those 24 houses ships resembled anything we'd seen before. The real reason is, of course, that they deliberately changed how everything looks with no attempt to make it fit.

And the "real" reason for so many things in TOS was because of budget and time restraints. Yet, fandom has spent the past 50 years working on theories to make them fit together.

At some point in time, DISCO is part of the franchise and will get the same treatment.

I'll stick with my own theory that we simply had not seen all 24 houses or their ship designs.

Fair enough, but it's a look that's been established for a half-century before DSC.

And still unbelievable.

I do wish ENT did a Han Solo/Falcon thing where the D7 and Bird of Prey were shiny and new, and over time they became the old rustbuckets of the TOS movies and beyond.

I think it would be nice as well.

 

[BillJ]

"Errand of Mercy."

I honestly don't see the connection, beyond Klingons (the word).

 

[F. King Daniel]

Did anyone else notice that they had real-time holocommunication with Admiral Caldwell (presumably on Earth) while buried inside Kronos? I remember people being unhappy that Kirk phoned Scotty in San Francisco from the Klingon border in Into Darkness. In TOS, communication with the neighbouring Romulan Neutral Zone was days away.

 

[fireproof78]

I honestly don't see the connection, beyond Klingons (the word).

There is a reference to increase Klingon Federation aggression threatening several border worlds and moving in to a full blown war.

As well as the fact that TUC references "70 years of unremitting hostilities" indicates that war was pretty much a constant threat.

 

[cultcross]

Did anyone else notice that they had real-time holocommunication with Admiral Caldwell (presumably on Earth) while buried inside Kronos? I remember people being unhappy that Kirk phoned Scotty in San Francisco from the Klingon border in Into Darkness. In TOS, communication with the neighbouring Romulan Neutral Zone was days away.

I can't say that I did.

Trek had never been one for internal consistency, especially when it comes to the abilities of its technology. The story needed them to speak with an admiral, so they spoke with an admiral. The TOS story required them to not be able to communicate, so they couldn't. Voyager needs to be 75 years from home and unable to send messages, so that's the limits of her technology, consistency be damned.

Sometimes too much of an eye for details will just spoil it. Because Trek's consistency at that level of detail is terrible.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'll stick with my own theory that we simply had not seen all 24 houses or their ship designs.

We've seen known clothing, we might see known ship designs eventually.

 

[Gonzo]

There's also the question of believability. They rebuilt the Enterprise between The Cage and DSC, put it back for TOS, then put it closer to how it was inbetween for TMP? Yeah ok.

And not one of those 24 houses ships resembled anything we'd seen before. The real reason is, of course, that they deliberately changed how everything looks with no attempt to make it fit.

Fair enough, but it's a look that's been established for a half-century before DSC.

I do wish ENT did a Han Solo/Falcon thing where the D7 and Bird of Prey were shiny and new, and over time they became the old rustbuckets of the TOS movies and beyond.

Seeing recognisable updated D7's and BoP's in the pilot episodes in the battle with the recognisable updated Starfleet ships would have gone a long way to establishing the show on a solid footing.

Missed opportunity there.

 

[urbandefault]

Prime timeline, as in TV-verse / not Kel-verse, absolutely.

 

[cooleddie74]

I do wish ENT did a Han Solo/Falcon thing where the D7 and Bird of Prey were shiny and new, and over time they became the old rustbuckets of the TOS movies and beyond.

That would be so much better than the turds we got for most of the Klingon ships in this series. Alas, ENT established that the Bird-of-Prey in a more or less similar configuration and appearance existed more than 100 years before TOS so that's out the window. If they said these other BoPs were another class of vessel and then showed a movie-style BoP alongside it in battle that would be perfectly fine. There's no reason this mediocre new design can't exist with the other at the same time, but the creators seem to have just retconned D7s and Birds-of-Prey to look like this and that's what they're sticking to.

And no, that's not a D7. Maybe a D8 or D9, but even then the design wouldn't look Klingon at all. Change is one thing. What these guys did just sucks.

 

[fireproof78]

Why do Klingon ships have to be monolithic? Why? Someone please answer that for me.

D7 has always struck me as a Starfleet designation for an alien vessel. Same with "B-Type" Warbird for the Romulan Warbird.

I get not liking a design, but the idea that every single Klingon ship is the same for hundreds of years is a level of stupidity that I cannot buy in to, even for Star Trek and its monolithic cultures.

 

[BillJ]

D7 has always struck me as a Starfleet designation for an alien vessel. Same with "B-Type" Warbird for the Romulan Warbird.

Of course it is a Starfleet designation. One that we've seen used before by Starfleet.

I get not liking a design, but the idea that every single Klingon ship is the same for hundreds of years is a level of stupidity that I cannot buy in to, even for Star Trek and its monolithic cultures.

That they are monolithic for hundreds of years isn't the fault of the fans. Those were choices the creators made. Choices that should've been respected if the current PTB wanted to cram their story into that time period/universe.

 

[lawman]

Did anyone else notice that they had real-time holocommunication with Admiral Caldwell (presumably on Earth) while buried inside Kronos? I remember people being unhappy that Kirk phoned Scotty in San Francisco from the Klingon border in Into Darkness. In TOS, communication with the neighbouring Romulan Neutral Zone was days away.

What stuck out to me there, actually, was that the show didn't tell us where Cornwell was at all. The last time we'd seen her was on the Discovery itself! We never even saw her leave.

I personally assumed she was on some other (nearby) ship, not way back on Earth, but an actual clue in the story would've been nice. It's akin to the sloppy way they handled the Discovery's whereabouts in the MU episodes from scene to scene... was it close to the Emperor's ship? Far away? Hidden? Who knows?

 

[The Wormhole]

Why do Klingon ships have to be monolithic? Why? Someone please answer that for me.

D7 has always struck me as a Starfleet designation for an alien vessel. Same with "B-Type" Warbird for the Romulan Warbird.

I get not liking a design, but the idea that every single Klingon ship is the same for hundreds of years is a level of stupidity that I cannot buy in to, even for Star Trek and its monolithic cultures.

Thing is, there has been a clear and definitive design lineage to how Klingon ships look that has been adhered to without fail for the past fifty years, including the intentional reboot that was the Abrams films. There is a way in which all Klingon ships look which everyone follows. However, none of the Klingon designs fit with that lineage. They're all doing their own thing. A show which is supposedly part of the Prime Universe has abandoned all known Klingon design ethic which everyone has adhered to, even the guy created an alternate timeline that intentionally had a different design aesthetic than the rest of the franchise. You can go on with your "a look isn't canon" rationalizations all you want, but some point it has to be acknowledged that the Disco Klingons have very little in common with any Klingons seen in the rest of the franchise.

It's akin to the sloppy way they handled the Discovery's whereabouts in the MU episodes from scene to scene... was it close to the Emperor's ship? Far away? Hidden? Who knows?

What I found especially sloppy about the MU episodes was at the ending of The Wolf Inside the Emperor's ship is clearly in the same system as Shenzhou, Michael and the bridge crew watch it blow up the Resistance's base. But then at the start of Vaulting Ambition, Michael takes a shuttle from Shenzhou, and has to travel at warp to get to the Emperor's ship.

 

[fireproof78]

Of course it is a Starfleet designation. One that we've seen used before by Starfleet.

Certainly, but that designation could be applied to other classes of ships.

That they are monolithic for hundreds of years isn't the fault of the fans. Those were choices the creators made. Choices that should've been respected if the current PTB wanted to cram their story into that time period/universe.

So, stupid choices should be respected?

I'm sorry, that's gigantic levels of stupidity. Cultures of monolithism is a trope of science fiction that needs to die. Species on a planet do not form monolithic groups, even with similar language and location. Why is an interplanetary empire expected to use the same exact design for 100 plus years!

I'm sorry, but there is all this ranting and raving about DISCO not fitting in to the Prime universe no matter what the creators say, based upon visual evidence. But, apparently, watching human culture unfold in no ways speaks to how a fictional species could possibly have diversity in design and culture and that is supposed to be more realistic?

It amazes me that trying to craft realistic cultures by expanding designs not seen before is somehow a violation of continuity to egregious as to be rejected outright.

 

[BillJ]

So, stupid choices should be respected?

If you're telling a story within another fictional story? Then, yes. But who is to say it is a stupid creative choice? Isn't it just as stupid to hold supposedly alien cultures to human standards of technological evolution? Whose to say that another culture wouldn't hang onto what works for them?

Hell, we're still desperately hanging onto burning fossil fuels fifty years after we figured it was damaging the planet, and hamstring any attempted development away from it due to economic pressure.

 

[fireproof78]

If you're telling a story within another fictional story? Then, yes.

Respectfully, I will disagree. To me, that is asinine to hold on to a story choice because of limits in budget or former writer's imaginations.

You can go on with your "a look isn't canon" rationalizations all you want, but some point it has to be acknowledged that the Disco Klingons have very little in common with any Klingons seen in the rest of the franchise.

Is it not reasonable to think that the audience has not seen ever facet of Klingon culture?