Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand?"

[GeekUSACarl]

It's L'Rell and Georgiou.

You think I keep typing Loreal and George-yo like its a typo and I don't know any better?

I just like saying Loreal and George-yo in place of their real names, cause I'm easily amused I suppose.

I also refer to Voq as either Powder or The Great White Hope. And Tkuvma as Tacoma.

But if you wanna keep following me around and correcting you go right ahead. You have your fun and ill have mine.

By the way Redundant High School called and wants a hall monitor.

 

[dahj]

the answer as to why Spock does not mention her name

He couldn't pronounce it.

 

[cbl1]

This is a TOS Klingon question. It doesn't need to be answered.

I do agree - Spock has never been inclined to acknowledge any of his relatives .... even when they are in the same room as him. That's a complete fact and easily explains her never being brought up before.

 

[eschaton]

Don't make me post pics of the TOS crew in the briefing room.

I'm not saying it never happened, but it wasn't a regular part of every episode that the entire main cast would go to the briefing room and talk their way through the options. Much of that discussion happened on the bridge.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

That's how a federation becomes an empire.

I think the rules for high minded sensibilities change when you're facing extinction.

In a world of fantasy science fiction I know its a little silly to make a point abput likelihoods but the blowing up of the klingon home world seemed like a far safer plan with a greater likelihood for success than handing the ipad off to Loreal and saying "have at it"

 

[cbl1]

He couldn't pronounce it.

I believe he thinks he grew up with someone named Rick Berman. It's hazy.

 

[zenophite]

That's how a federation becomes an empire.

One thing does not necessarily follow another.

 

[Long Syntax]

He's not wrong. Consensus is what those damn briefing room scenes were about.
Star Trek often makes a point of circumventing the chain of command for the sake of what's right, consequences be damned. The show is not about blindly following the rules.

Well, I think you're right, but only in exceptions. The usual case was to follow chain of command. Command would break down if everyone tried to gain consensus. That's why it struck me as odd - that ST was all about consensus. There are cases, but they're edge cases.

 

[Long Syntax]

Don't make me post pics of the TOS crew in the briefing room.

Consensus is different than getting input from your subordinates.

 

[XCV330]

Well, I think you're right, but only in exceptions. The usual case was to follow chain of command. Command would break down if everyone tried to gain consensus. That's why it struck me as odd - that ST was all about consensus. There are cases, but they're edge cases.

Yeah, I don't quite get that either. I mean a captain oftentimes will at least get a feel for what his senior staff thinks, but its still on his or her shoulders. I think they're just exaggerating.

It is true though, that you never even see the ready room table until Lorca is dead.

 

[cbl1]

In a world of fantasy science fiction I know its a little silly to make a point abput likelihoods but the blowing up of the klingon home world seemed like a far safer plan with a greater likelihood for success than handing the ipad off to Loreal and saying "have at it"

Actually - with the Klingon fleet at the doorstep of Earth ... destroying Qo'nos may have led them to destroying Earth in retaliation. I think I like how the peaceful idea went as I'm kinda fond of Earth.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Consensus in different than getting input from your subordinates.

That's how you arrive at a consensus.

 

[zenophite]

I think the rules for high minded sensibilities change when you're facing extinction.

In a world of fantasy science fiction I know its a little silly to make a point about likelihoods but the blowing up of the klingon home world seemed like a far safer plan with a greater likelihood for success than handing the ipad off to Loreal and saying "have at it"

Quite right. The problem with high minded idealism like this as a basis for an actual functioning state is that in the drama there is never a real 'Kobayashi Maru' scenario presented in the narrative (to borrow the parlance of the franchise).

The squeaky clean good guys always win by doing the 'right thing' - because that's how the story is written. But an examination of what 'the right thing' in a given situation actually consists of is not debated.

 

[cbl1]

Consensus in different than getting input from your subordinates.

Point being Bernham didn't even seek out her subordiantes opinions. She felt she knew everything in her previous command.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Actually - with the Klingon fleet at the doorstep of Earth ... destroying Qo'nos may have led them to destroying Earth in retaliation. I think I like how the peaceful idea went as I'm kinda fond of Earth.

In hindsight yeah.

But if I'm in command of the ladt remaining ships preparing to defend earth and we already hatched this plan and someone called me and said "nonononono, that other klingon, she is totally on board, you remember her, she saved your life / almost killed you? Yeah she's cool, she's gonna convince everyone else to stop. Yeah just give her the ipad and trust me. Its all gravy"

I may just think to myself "yeah nah"

It isn't that I think overall it was a bad idea. I'm just surprised from Conrwell's seat, that shed think it was a good idea.

 

[dahj]

Point being Bernham didn't even seek out her subordiantes opinions

She didn't have any subordinates, she was an enlisted specialist, literally everyone outranked her.

 

[cbl1]

I do agree - Spock has never been inclined to acknowledge any of his relatives .... even when they are in the same room as him. That's a complete fact and easily explains her never being brought up before.

And actually if Sarek and Burnham walked onto the Enterprise bridge in the season 2 premier - I would say with about 100% certainty he wouldn't acknowledge them as his father and adopted sister. If he did I would call that out as "out of character".

 

[zenophite]

Actually - with the Klingon fleet at the doorstep of Earth ... destroying Qo'nos may have led them to destroying Earth in retaliation. I think I like how the peaceful idea went as I'm kinda fond of Earth.

Except that you are not really taking into consideration the differences in psychology for a 'alien warrior race'. In such a scenario it could be argued to be more likely that the Klingons would see themselves as having been bested in fair combat and would have surrendered themselves after such a humiliation as they could potentially see themselves collectively as unworthy failures and deserved of death.

 

[Long Syntax]

She didn't have any subordinates, she was an enlisted specialist, literally everyone outranked her.

Well, no... at the point she went rogue and bypassed her commanding officer she was a commander (If I recall correctly)

 

[cbl1]

She didn't have any subordinates, she was an enlisted specialist, literally everyone outranked her.

I'm talking about her not seeking it when she was a commander.