JAMES CAWLEY SPEAKS!

[Firebird]

There's a big difference between being able to make a film and being able to make your film.

Honestly, a lot of your argument is refuted by the fact that fan filmmakers are playing in someone else's sandbox, so they must obey the rules of the owner, not theirs. It may be "your" film, but you're not using your own characters. Make your own IP, then it's your call.

 

[Krandor]

I've seen fan films with credits nearly as long as the story. And arguably more interesting.


The thing that keeps getting overlooked is, CBS owns the property. Lock, stock, and barrel. They could easily have just said "no more" and been done with it. But they haven't.

Yet.

You are right but to some cbs i the bad guy for being one of the first companies to create rules that actually permit fan films to be allowed to be made.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

Honestly, a lot of your argument is refuted by the fact that fan filmmakers are playing in someone else's sandbox, so they must obey the rules of the owner, not theirs.

Nonsense. I don't have to break the Guidelines (or encourage others to do so) to disagree with them or advocate for their change. You're conflating opinion with how a hypothetical person who has that opinion might choose to act in response.

Make your own IP, then it's your call.

That's exactly what I'm doing, for that exact reason.

The thing that keeps getting overlooked is, CBS owns the property. Lock, stock, and barrel. They could easily have just said "no more" and been done with it. But they haven't.

Nobody's overlooking it, and I'm kind of sick of how this bit is trotted out every time someone doesn't want to have a real conversation about how fans should be treated by a franchise. It's basically "You can't disagree with CBS because copyright".

You are right but to some cbs [is] the bad guy for being one of the first companies to create rules that actually permit fan films to be allowed to be made.

Actually, I think Lucas Films probably beat them to it. Also, plenty of authors have released their books under Creative Commons. There's also that Amazon service Kindle Worlds, which allows you to legally distribute fan fiction under copyright law. CBS is hardly an innovator.

For that matter, what CBS has done isn't even that great. There's no license under any terms. There's no covenant not to sue even if you obey all the Guidelines, and the Guidelines exclude entire categories of people from making fan films.

I'm not saying that the general idea of having guidelines like this is bad. It's better than nothing. But they aren't the best guidelines we could have, and they're far from the security of an actual fan license.

 

[urbandefault]

Nobody's overlooking it, and I'm kind of sick of how this bit is trotted out every time someone doesn't want to have a real conversation about how fans should be treated by a franchise. It's basically "You can't disagree with CBS because copyright".

Lots of people are overlooking it. And no one said that you can't disagree, but at the end of the day it's CBS' ball. They can take their ball and go home if they want, and all the disagreeeing in the world won't change that fact. The End.

 

[USS Intrepid]

You know, the ignore function on this board is incredibly useful.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

Lots of people are overlooking it. And no one said that you can't disagree, but at the end of the day it's CBS' ball. They can take their ball and go home if they want, and all the disagreeeing in the world won't change that fact. The End.

We've had this conversation before, an either everyone's incredibly forgetful, or they're just deliberately pretending previous arguments haven't been made. Our ability to change the minds of CBS management is not the sole means of measuring the importance of a conversation about the Guidelines. For example, a discussion of the Guidelines can achieve the following:

• Give incite on why some people create fan films under the Guidelines and others don't.
• Explain why some people would chance fan films that violate some of those guidelines.
• Help create a dialogue that can be used to establish policies for other/newer franchises.
• Give an outlet to expression personal frustration regarding the Guidelines.
• Start a discussion about how fair use laws should be expanded or reformed.

The real truth isn't that such a discussion is pointless, but that it's in conflict with your personal opinions and you'd rather not talk about it. No problem. Just don't talk about it. You're entitled to your opinions, but I'm entitled to mine, and if you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

You know, the ignore function on this board is incredibly useful.

But if they "Ignore" me, who's going to post the 10,000th variation of "Too bad, because CBS owns the copyright"?

 

[urbandefault]

We've had this conversation before, an either everyone's incredibly forgetful, or they're just deliberately pretending previous arguments haven't been made. Our ability to change the minds of CBS management is not the sole means of measuring the importance of a conversation about the Guidelines. For example, a discussion of the Guidelines can achieve the following:

• Give incite on why some people create fan films under the Guidelines and others don't.
• Explain why some people would chance fan films that violate some of those guidelines.
• Help create a dialogue that can be used to establish policies for other/newer franchises.
• Give an outlet to expression personal frustration regarding the Guidelines.
• Start a discussion about how fair use laws should be expanded or reformed.

The real truth isn't that such a discussion is pointless, but that it's in conflict with your personal opinions and you'd rather not talk about it. No problem. Just don't talk about it. You're entitled to your opinions, but I'm entitled to mine, and if you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

But if they "Ignore" me, who's going to post the 10,000th variation of "Too bad, because CBS owns the copyright"?

I really feel like you're just talking to yourself.

 

[Maurice]

You know, the ignore function on this board is incredibly useful.

Especially with those who ultracrepidate endlessly.

 

[urbandefault]

• Give incite on why some people create fan films under the Guidelines and others don't.

• Explain why some people would chance fan films that violate some of those guidelines.

• Help create a dialogue that can be used to establish policies for other/newer franchises.

• Give an outlet to expression personal frustration regarding the Guidelines.

• Start a discussion about how fair use laws should be expanded or reformed.

1. "Insight," not "incite." If you want to be taken seriously, at least use the right word.
2. "Violate" is the wrong word here, too. Guidelines are a road map, not laws. Stay on the road and you're good. Deviate from the guidelines and your course might be corrected, or you crash and go down in flames. Crashing in this instance might end you up in court, facing a judge who knows your arguments before you make them.
3. There's only one franchise in question here, and it's not even a question. CBS owns the property, so they get to say how it's used. Protest as you like, but it doesn't change reality.
4. This is your real point.
5. Fair use laws are to protect the property owner. Talk to us again when someone tries to appropriate a property you own.

You want to argue a point, but your premise is flawed. As much as you resist, it remains a fact that CBS gets to make the rules when it comes to Trek.

 

[USS Intrepid]

You know, the ignore function on this board is incredibly useful.

Certainly feels like that some days. Or is it a brick wall? Sometimes it’s hard to tell.

 

[Maurice]

Certainly feels like that she days. Or is it a brick wall? Sometimes it’s hard to tell.

Um, talking to yourself? And what are "she days"?

EDIT: I see you fixed it.

 

[Krandor]

• Give incite on why some people create fan films under the Guidelines and others don't.
• Explain why some people would chance fan films that violate some of those guidelines.
• Help create a dialogue that can be used to establish policies for other/newer franchises.
• Give an outlet to expression personal frustration regarding the Guidelines.
• Start a discussion about how fair use laws should be expanded or reformed.

1. Pretty much everybody is creating stuff under the guidelines If this is STC again, they were just finishing what they started. I can't think of any new project that hasn't followed the guidelines.
2. Outside of STC, who else is violating the guidelines?
3. No discussion on here is going to have an effect on other transchises
4. ok vent. Won't change them.
5. They shouldn't be. Just becasue fans would like to make their own films, books, etc using other people's IP doesn't mean they should be allowed to as a function of law. That should be a decision by the IP holder.

 

[fireproof78]

We've had this conversation before, an either everyone's incredibly forgetful, or they're just deliberately pretending previous arguments haven't been made. Our ability to change the minds of CBS management is not the sole means of measuring the importance of a conversation about the Guidelines. For example, a discussion of the Guidelines can achieve the following:

• Give incite on why some people create fan films under the Guidelines and others don't.
• Explain why some people would chance fan films that violate some of those guidelines.
• Help create a dialogue that can be used to establish policies for other/newer franchises.
• Give an outlet to expression personal frustration regarding the Guidelines.
• Start a discussion about how fair use laws should be expanded or reformed.

The real truth isn't that such a discussion is pointless, but that it's in conflict with your personal opinions and you'd rather not talk about it. No problem. Just don't talk about it. You're entitled to your opinions, but I'm entitled to mine, and if you don't want to discuss it, then don't.

But if they "Ignore" me, who's going to post the 10,000th variation of "Too bad, because CBS owns the copyright"?

What if I'm ok with the Guidelines? That's the thing. It is their property and they are allowed to do with it what they please, including destroy it, if that's their choice.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

What if I'm ok with the Guidelines?

You mean you've been unpersuaded by arguments against your position? Say it isn't so!

 

[fireproof78]

You mean you've been unpersuaded by arguments against your position? Say it isn't so!

More that I respect the current law and don't feel the need to say "Down with CBS!" or "Those guidelines are stupid!" It's not cut and dry to me. I get that people are upset, but I'm not one of them.

Have discussions all you want, but in the end, if the law doesn't change, I'll respect that law.

 

[Phoenix219]

I don't think the guidelines matter at all..... make whatever you want. If they tell you stop, listen. If not, you're okay. No one will end up in front of a judge. Just be quiet and careful and listen if they yell at you. Its pretty simple..... don't be Alec Peters.

IMO, Make what you want without broadcasting every step of your production and just put it on line.... it will last forever.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

More that I respect the current law and don't feel the need to say "Down with CBS!" or "Those guidelines are stupid!" It's not cut and dry to me. I get that people are upset, but I'm not one of them.

Have discussions all you want, but in the end, if the law doesn't change, I'll respect that law.

Well, I may have missed it, but I haven't read anyone advocating actually breaking the law. I don't read every post, though.

 

[Krandor]

I don't think the guidelines matter at all..... make whatever you want. If they tell you stop, listen. If not, you're okay. No one will end up in front of a judge. Just be quiet and careful and listen if they yell at you. Its pretty simple..... don't be Alec Peters.

IMO, Make what you want without broadcasting every step of your production and just put it on line.... it will last forever.

people talk about their production online in order to get the money to make it. Even LFIM himself has said he is going to put out some trailers first before trying to get the full money for the movie-who-must-not-be-named.

 

[Phoenix219]

So don't do it. Save for it yourself or take private donations from private social networking groups. Do your first one like STC did. Go lower budget if necessary. Don't draw attention to yourself, stay under the radar, and no one should bother you.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, I may have missed it, but I haven't read anyone advocating actually breaking the law. I don't read every post, though.

Fair point.