Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x13 - "What's Past Is Prologue"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Yeah, I was expecting it to be nine months into the past. But I guess well get to that part later...
They maybe should not have shown the Emperor casually murdering and eating people if they wanted to write a redemption story...
Shes a science prodigy, but she's also a warrior, a tactical expert who always believes she's right, supposedly a leader and 'compassionate' beyond belief (according to Sarek), and much more. There's a lot of tell and not show with regards to her character. Almost like the producers are afraid that audiences won't like her, so they needed to frontload the dialogue with characters praising Burnham's talents.
The great thing about Kirk/Spock/Bones is neither one of them were very effective at all of those things on their own.
It was the Ego/Superego/Id dynamic. They all relied on each other as checks and balances to pull off all their adventures.
Alright Tomalak,
I've posted all this already, just go back and re-read previous posts from here on out.
Meh. I've rather enjoyed the series on the whole but I've just come away from this episode feeling disappointed.
It's frustrating because we had the prospect of a morally grey but interesting and likeable character played by a talented actor in the form of Lorca dangled in front of us. TV has changed over the past few years and I was excited to see Star Trek feature a character with proper depth who might not be perfect but you can still cheer on, like Jaime Lannister post redemption arc. But it was snatched away, and turns out he's just a space racist who was easily defeated by Burnham who's grand plan was to escape a throne room full of armed guards completely unharmed when getting away from Georgiou, before returning to a throne room full of armed guards and killing them all before stopping Lorca in his tracks since he is apparently enamoured by her sheer brilliance. So much wasted potential. In the end the series's most compelling character is used for ham-fisted social commentary that was acceptable in the 60s or even 90s, but after a 13 year break and $8 million per episode I was hoping for more.
Yes I just made an account on an internet forum to rant about a new Star Trek series. Can I collect my official nerd badge now.
It's frustrating because we had the prospect of a morally grey but interesting and likeable character played by a talented actor in the form of Lorca dangled in front of us. TV has changed over the past few years and I was excited to see Star Trek feature a character with proper depth who might not be perfect but you can still cheer on, like Jaime Lannister post redemption arc. But it was snatched away, and turns out he's just a space racist who was easily defeated by Burnham who's grand plan was to escape a throne room full of armed guards completely unharmed when getting away from Georgiou, before returning to a throne room full of armed guards and killing them all before stopping Lorca in his tracks since he is apparently enamoured by her sheer brilliance. So much wasted potential. In the end the series's most compelling character is used for ham-fisted social commentary that was acceptable in the 60s or even 90s, but after a 13 year break and $8 million per episode I was hoping for more.
Yes I just made an account on an internet forum to rant about a new Star Trek series. Can I collect my official nerd badge now.
No, the mycelial network is the Force and the spores are the Midichlorians. Or something....
Agreed on the first point, but as for Lorca's rebellion, I don't think they quite follow the same rules as the generic MU crowd. They show loyalty to him for reasons other than fear and ambition.
A
Amaris
Guest
Because human beings turning into their supposed pre-human ancestors and then back again is like, totally scientific? It's just a matter of re-sequencing the DNA! Again, as told to @Longinus, Star Trek is drama with a smattering of science fiction and fantasy elements. It's based on the thinnest of scientific premises, and then they run with it. If you're looking for science in Star Trek, you're looking in the wrong place. Star Trek and Star Wars are the same, it's just that Star Trek uses technology in place of the Force.
And that's another issue. I gave the definition of what I've known to be Mary Sue for over 20 years. "You write you into a story and you solve everything." But, that definition inconveniences people so it's changed into something that doesn't.
I learned after arguing with people about the 2016 Election, that no one accepts the same sources, no one accepts the same definitions, and no one accepts results that challenge what they believe to be true. Whatever feeds into what people think is "right" and whatever doesn't is "wrong" in this current society we live in.
A post-truth, "alternative facts" society that disgusts me. Some people won't be happy until we're back to the 1800s. The Hell with them.
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This.
I have to say- there was a lot of plot holes and poor logic in this episode.
A further thought occurs: What happened to Mirror Disco? Did they automatically get displaced back to the MU when our Disco returned? If so, at what point? When our version left the MU or when it arrived back in the PU?
I'd quite like it if they somehow remained in the PU, and had to face off against Disco Prime at some point.
I'd quite like it if they somehow remained in the PU, and had to face off against Disco Prime at some point.
No, you just get the probationers one.
Despite Burnham's pessimistic view of how Terrans act in the MU (which is, lest we forget, based solely on the logs that she has managed to recover from a long since destroyed Klingon vessel), I'm sticking with my belief that concepts such as genuine loyalty, honor and selfless sacrifice are still possible in that universe.
Look at Maximilian Forrest from "In a Mirror, Darkly" for example. Yes, he was a hardass, as is typical for personnel in the Terran Empire. But in the end, as his ship was disintegrating around him, he willingly stayed behind and sacrificed his own life so his crew could live.
Now I'm sure MU Lorca was not anywhere near this noble, but the point remains, it is still possible for characters to act that way in the mirror universe.
True, but he ded now. Soooooo...
I'm inclined to suspect they would enact their vengeance on her, both for his death and the months of torture they endured at her hands.
About sums up where I am. This could have been good for the show and the character, but they completely whiffed it. It means that any bit of nuance or apparent character development Lorca had over the last season was a sham, and not indicative of what the writers want the show to be. I guess this two-dimensional schlock is what they think the series should build towards? Blech.
Well yeah there was that. But again, had she had shuttle...
It's not bizarre to me at all. I've been a Star Trek fan literally since birth (1975) and I see this difference as the primary appeal of DSC. After 750 hours of the same...it was time for a different approach.
We all like different things about Star Trek. Some people like philosophical discussions around the conference table and characters of high morale and ethical principles presiding over those decisions with flawless precision. Others like adventure and fun in outer space.Others like the world building of a perfectly-continuous universe.
Not everybody who love the franchise gives a shit about Star Trek's "philosophy." I for one could really care less. I just want to have fun and be engaged. I don't care if Picard is sipping tea and reading Shakespear while deciding he can't send Hugh back to the Borg collective or if he is snapping the Borg Queen's spine mercilessly while holding a phaser rifle he just broke over some drone's head. Don't give a shit either way. Just give me something that actually gets my blood pumping. That's what I personally want out of my entertainment. It had been a LONG time since Star Trek on TV had made me feel that way.
Others, like yourself, have a very different view, and that's ok. Star Trek is as diverse as it gets in terms of what it has to offer and the people who like it.
But please don't try to frame up, even innocently, the question of "how can you be a Star Trek fan and not care about XYZ?" I'm a Star Trek fan, but I had grown bored and weary of the exact same plots, structures, tones, themes, characters, aesthetics, pace, etc. It was 750 frigging hours of episodes and movies, many of which all aired in back-to-back series (overlapping at times). For me, it got stale as frigging 1-year old Wonder Bread. I'm thankful for a different approach, and I'm willing to be patient given the production team's reminders that this is a journey to see how Starfleet evolved some of those more refined ideals. Mainly, because I'm having fun and I don't get caught up in other stuff that doesn't matter to me.
Like I said, it's perfectly fine (and totally understandable) if you are not willing to give that same patience...but don't try to make what "being a Star Trek fan" is a singular thing. Cuz it aint.
Sorry guys but a franchise that's gone to the Energy being/extra dimensional/Psychic well as often as Trek has can't look down their nose at midichlorians. Kirk literally got psychic powers from a shot once! But if you have the documentation on the scientific research into the technology that will lead to energy beings and psychic powers, I'd love see it.
Ok - everyone seems to be pre-occupied with what the definition of Mary Sue is (I can define it as one boring conversation).
But maybe I missed in all the Mary Sue conversations ... regarding this episode .... did anyone feel the parallels between the Burnham/Emperor tag team fight this episode and the Burnham/Georgiou team fight in the Battle of Binary. I'm sure it was intentional for the writers and it made it particularly important then that she saved the emperor. While I was watching I thought the whole time - she has to save the emperor. When she had the same fight with Georgiou she wasn't successful bringing Georgiou home. She isn't going to have the same fight and this time leave her to die!
This episode seemed to me to bring everyone full circle in creating the new Discovery family. You had Burnham fighting her demons and saving her captain (doppleganger). You had Saru as a bold figure (from scared in original episode) and going from a position of mistrust and apathy toward Burnham to trust and actual real solid friendship.
But maybe I missed in all the Mary Sue conversations ... regarding this episode .... did anyone feel the parallels between the Burnham/Emperor tag team fight this episode and the Burnham/Georgiou team fight in the Battle of Binary. I'm sure it was intentional for the writers and it made it particularly important then that she saved the emperor. While I was watching I thought the whole time - she has to save the emperor. When she had the same fight with Georgiou she wasn't successful bringing Georgiou home. She isn't going to have the same fight and this time leave her to die!
This episode seemed to me to bring everyone full circle in creating the new Discovery family. You had Burnham fighting her demons and saving her captain (doppleganger). You had Saru as a bold figure (from scared in original episode) and going from a position of mistrust and apathy toward Burnham to trust and actual real solid friendship.
So she's highly intelligent and well-trained, and well-regarded by her colleagues. Ok, so are most Starfleet graduates. Self-confidence is also not a rare trait amongst Trek characters, though I think it's fair to say Burnham's had a crisis of confidence far greater than any previous Trek character.
If your problem is with clumsy writing, why do you have some sort of animus against the character rather than the writers?
Back in the day when people moaned about Janeway or Seven of Nine, it was Brannon Braga who got the blame. Now people seem to viscerally dislike the character. It's weird to me and I don't really understand it.
Alright Tomalak,
I've posted all this already, just go back and re-read previous posts from here on out.
I'm still genuinely at a loss why she's so much worse than any of the other polymath heroes we've followed in Star Trek for half a century. If you could point me to the relevant posts I'd be much obliged.
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