Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x13 - "What's Past Is Prologue"

[Bay17]

Do you think Yeoh will stick around? I don't. I definitely don't see the evil emperor from another dimension becoming the regular captain character. She'll die to complete Burnham's season arc. (And so there's not a MU character running around in the PU. Have to put the toys back in the box.)



Just stay patient. We had to watch those first two episodes to see the real pilot, didn't get to see the ship until episode three, then had to sit through 12 episodes to see the real crew interaction. Maybe we'll get to the actual show in season three, like in TNG.

I'm joking, of course. I just wish the crew had had more to do in their season-long journey of unity. I don't even know most of their names. Among the main characters, I'm not sure how their interactions have changed, other than being told they have.

Agreed. Being told things are different or “revealed” is not the same as seeing it happen and believing it.

And no I don’t think Georgiou will last more than a couple of episodes. Just to bridge the gap to season 2

Oh for it to settle down a bit

 

[Vger23]

And just like that I'd have had 45 minutes extra free time each week

Yup

 

[Bay17]

Honestly they're hacks. The writing of this show is so goddamn shallow it's legitimately eye rolling.



It's an apt comparison, I've been comparing Discovery with Disney's Star Wars for quite some time now and they largely share the same problems. The writing in pop culture franchises has honestly gone off a cliff recently and I'm not exactly sure why. It has to be a top down decision though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/c...i_now_has_a_lower_audience/dreqs9u/?context=3

This rant from a Star Wars fan about the direction of the new Star Wars movies honestly echos a lot of my same feelings towards the direction of Discovery.

"In sequels everyone's so ineffectual, no one can get any job done properly and definitely. Film makers do not have guts to define anyone or anything. It's just collection of quips, gimmicks and random events, while shoehorning a general philosophical theme, such as failure is the greatest teacher."
"...And everything needs a fucking explanation or a comic or a commentary or exclusive DVD booklet to understand. Where OT left holes they were only expanding your awe with the universe. Main things were perfectly covered and clear, and the remaining was left for your imagination to fill. Here, it's exactly the opposite, good luck trying to figure out why is anything important or how things are related to anything else."

Hits the nail on the head. Isaacs is a good actor but when he says “Watch the episodes again and you’ll see how everything makes sense that he was Mirror Lorca”...

No, everything made sense that he was a no-nonsense military leader who did what he had to do to win the war. As he told us many times. So it was very clear. And made sense - not classic Trek-style, but we’d been told it would be different, and it fitted with all the other differences eg ship, spore drive, tech

The hints were only clear in the minds of the writers and actors. As impossible to figure out as the Agatha Christie novels I read as a kid when I was told that everything you needed to find the murderer was right in front of you. Bullshit

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Hits the nail on the head. Isaacs is a good actor but when he says “Watch the episodes again and you’ll see how everything makes sense that he was Mirror Lorca”...

No, everything made sense that he was a no-nonsense military leader who did what he had to do to win the war. As he told us many times. So it was very clear. And made sense - not classic Trek-style, but we’d been told it would be different, and it fitted with all the other differences eg ship, spore drive, tech

The hints were only clear in the minds of the writers and actors. As impossible to figure out as the Agatha Christie novels I read as a kid when I was told that everything you needed to find the murderer was right in front of you. Bullshit

I dunno,

a lot of people really early on were sayin "something's up with that guy, not quite right" and sure they couldn't predict the whole thing,

but nearer to the moment it became more and more clear he was Mirror Lorca, so much so that it was a pretty prevailing theory for a bit.

 

[Tomalak]

Hits the nail on the head. Isaacs is a good actor but when he says “Watch the episodes again and you’ll see how everything makes sense that he was Mirror Lorca”...

No, everything made sense that he was a no-nonsense military leader who did what he had to do to win the war. As he told us many times. So it was very clear. And made sense - not classic Trek-style, but we’d been told it would be different, and it fitted with all the other differences eg ship, spore drive, tech

The hints were only clear in the minds of the writers and actors. As impossible to figure out as the Agatha Christie novels I read as a kid when I was told that everything you needed to find the murderer was right in front of you. Bullshit

But people have been speculating that Lorca was from the Mirror Universe since his first appearance. It wasn't exactly the inexplicable, unforeseeable shark jump you are suggesting.

 

[cultcross]

Questions for the Treksperts...is this the first time we've seen a tandem beam-out result in two single beam-ins?

I think so. However, transporting has never been particularly consistent in how one disappears versus how one reappears. Body position often changes, even moving within the beam, but sometimes they appear frozen. Barclay is conscious within the beam in Realm of Fear, which makes no sense at all.

 

[Hythlodeus]

"The twists are all telegraphed way in advance, the writers suck so hard at surprising us!!!!!!!"

"The hints were only clear in the writer's mind. It was impossible to figure out, they so suck at writing twist that can be figured out!!!!"


Nerds, make up your minds

 

[jespah]

So, is the MU Discovery in the Prime Universe? Duo Discoveries?

Spoiler

If so, then maybe that's how Georgiou returns to the MU

I also in my head think MU Detmer has taken the throne.

 

[cbl1]

My Tilley prediction regarding the spore

We find out Tilly is the sweatiest member of the crew and doesn’t wash here clothes. Come to find out a whole spore colony has grown in her uniform and they are able to harvest enough spores for a final jump.

 

[Krandor]

I've been a big supporter of discovery but I'm really confused right now. As an episode, I enjoyed this one. A lot of tension and some good action. Probably 8/10.

However my problem comes in to how this fits into the overall arc. We have been told this is Michael's story but I'm sorry she hasn't really changed at all. She was emotional impulsive in epsidode 1 and was emotionally impulsive again this episode. Starting in episode 3 this was Lorca's story because everything that has happened was due to him manipulating events and people to achive the outcome he wanted. Then he fails and is dead. If this really is the end to the Lorca arc what was the point? I saw after trek where they said it was to bring the crew together. If that was the whole point did they need 12 episodes to get there. Some have said Lorca may be the Ned Stark but it isn't the same. Ned Starks's death had meaning. That put events into motion that could not be stopped once that act was done. With Lorca, it just ended and that was that

I think the same of Tyler/Voq arc. We don't even know what the plan was for Voq and what he wanted to acomplish but again he was simply found out before he could do it, his plan failed, and it looks like Voq is gone now. Again, what was the point?

Maybe the writers have things in mind for the last 2 episodes that will being closure to these arcs but if they don't and the last 2 episodes are just ending the war and putting Michael in the captains chair I'll be dissapointed... and her actions with Georgioa show she still isn't ready for the captains chair.

I'll be equally dissapointed if it is a time travel to before the war started becasue then all the character development we have gotten like Saru and Tilly will be null and voice when the timeline resets and the whole season will be null and void.

I'm worried right now and I hope the writers show me there is a plan and that all will make sense.

 

[Visitor1982]

Could that final green spore on Tilly be a way to bring back Culber somehow...

 

[cbl1]

and Will note on the Lorca mirror criticism that if not for this board I would not have thought he was from mu. The normal viewer who doesn’t toss around ideas here isn’t going to always pick up on these things.

Now the ash thing I think everyone could see that but that was part of the tension anytime he was around where you didn’t trust him. I think that was purposeful on their part. That wasn’t meant to be shocking it was meant to add distrust and tension in earlier episodes.

 

[Bay17]

But people have been speculating that Lorca was from the Mirror Universe since his first appearance. It wasn't exactly the inexplicable, unforeseeable shark jump you are suggesting.

Yes I get that and I’m not meaning to say it was completely unexpected. It’s more in the context of taking 12 episodes for the bridge crew to get a line of dialogue and how the producers expect everything to make sense to us because it makes sense to them

 

[Hythlodeus]

Yes I get that and I’m not meaning to say it was completely unexpected. It’s more in the context of taking 12 episodes for the bridge crew to get a line of dialogue and how the producers expect everything to make sense to us because it makes sense to them

It makes sense to me

 

[Tuskin38]

According to Ted Sullivan, having the Mirror Universe in season 1 was Bryan Fuller's idea, except he had it way earlier in the season, the current Discovery crew pushed it back so we could get to know the crew more before putting them in that situation.

Mirror Lorca was not Bryan's idea.

 

[KennyB]

Could that final green spore on Tilly be a way to bring back Culber somehow...

On AfterTrek it was asked about and he said............"Season 2"................

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Hits the nail on the head. Isaacs is a good actor but when he says “Watch the episodes again and you’ll see how everything makes sense that he was Mirror Lorca”...

No, everything made sense that he was a no-nonsense military leader who did what he had to do to win the war. As he told us many times. So it was very clear. And made sense - not classic Trek-style, but we’d been told it would be different, and it fitted with all the other differences eg ship, spore drive, tech

The hints were only clear in the minds of the writers and actors. As impossible to figure out as the Agatha Christie novels I read as a kid when I was told that everything you needed to find the murderer was right in front of you. Bullshit

Not to toot my own horn, but I posted this list of possible signs Lorca was from the MU in the TNZ Discovery thread back in November of last year, and was speculating that he was possibly from the MU much earlier than that (I think at least from the episode where he sleeps with Admiral Cornwell). So yes, the signs were there.
_____________________________________

- Lorca was seemingly unaware of certain significant details of his past relationship with Admiral Cornwell when she mentioned them.

- Admiral Cornwell took note of a scar on Lorca's back which she was unaware of from their previous relationship. Not a big deal in that he could have simply gotten it after she original slept with him, but included for the sake of completeness.

- The aforementioned scar was in a neatly formed triangular shape indicating being made by something mechanical and metallic, possibly the new show's version of the Mirror Universe's Agonizer device? Lorca's reaction to her touching it was like someone with PTSD over being tortured reacting to someone touching a lingering scar from that torture,

- Lorca made a point of remarking to Stamets about the most significant aspect of the spore drive's future exploratory potential being the ability to not just jump to other regions of space, but also to other universes entirely.

- Lorca was shown to be mapping those entry points to the alternate universes in the mycelial network, and a secondary benefit of the rapid series of 133 jumps (besides the cloaking device intel) was that he would get a huge amount of additional detail for those maps.

- Before secretly overriding the final jump with coordinates marked "unknown", Lorca ominously said "Let's go home." Then in the very next scene they wind up in an unknown region or dimension that is so damaging to Stamets that he immediately collapses in pain.

- Lorca was the sole survivor of the self-destruction of his own ship to allegedly protect the crew from capture, torture, and execution at the hands of the Klingons, but no one else remains to corroborate his story. Now we have the Discovery jumping to an unknown region of space where the exploded wreckage of a starship are seen adrift. Did the explosion of the USS Buran possibly rip an opening into the Mirror Universe? Did a Mirror Universe operative come into our universe posing as the (actually dead) primeverse Captain Lorca, knowing that none of his crew remained alive to contradict his story?

- Stamets had already had a hallucination(?) or metaphorical representation of himself shown up in a mirror after first connecting to the mycelial network, which has been implied to possibly give him visions of future events (He saw a vision of Tilly as captain). So he may have had a glimpse (though he was not consciously aware of it) of a future visit to the Mirror Universe.


-

Spoiler: Future episode spoiler about the MU from behind the scenes info

We know they're definitely going to go to the Mirror Universe at some point and encounter the ISS Discovery, so speculating that Lorca is possibly from the MU is not such a stretch.

 

[Bay17]

I've been a big supporter of discovery but I'm really confused right now. As an episode, I enjoyed this one. A lot of tension and some good action. Probably 8/10.

However my problem comes in to how this fits into the overall arc. We have been told this is Michael's story but I'm sorry she hasn't really changed at all. She was emotional impulsive in epsidode 1 and was emotionally impulsive again this episode. Starting in episode 3 this was Lorca's story because everything that has happened was due to him manipulating events and people to achive the outcome he wanted. Then he fails and is dead. If this really is the end to the Lorca arc what was the point? I saw after trek where they said it was to bring the crew together. If that was the whole point did they need 12 episodes to get there. Some have said Lorca may be the Ned Stark but it isn't the same. Ned Starks's death had meaning. That put events into motion that could not be stopped once that act was done. With Lorca, it just ended and that was that

I think the same of Tyler/Voq arc. We don't even know what the plan was for Voq and what he wanted to acomplish but again he was simply found out before he could do it, his plan failed, and it looks like Voq is gone now. Again, what was the point?

Maybe the writers have things in mind for the last 2 episodes that will being closure to these arcs but if they don't and the last 2 episodes are just ending the war and putting Michael in the captains chair I'll be dissapointed... and her actions with Georgioa show she still isn't ready for the captains chair.

I'll be equally dissapointed if it is a time travel to before the war started becasue then all the character development we have gotten like Saru and Tilly will be null and voice when the timeline resets and the whole season will be null and void.

I'm worried right now and I hope the writers show me there is a plan and that all will make sense.

Same here

By the end of 12 episodes you should be strongly invested in a couple of characters that you are looking forward to seeing what they do next. Someone you’re happy to follow into future episodes

Lorca was definitely one but he turned out to be a bad guy and he’s gone. Burnham is not someone I’m interested enough to follow. Her redemption arc is kind of ok but she’s not a lead, despite the amount of screen time she gets

Saru I’m ready to follow but it’s taken them a full season to bring him to the fore

Hoping the last two episodes can make me feel more for the bridge crew so that I care what happens to them

 

[Bay17]

It makes sense to me

I must be a bit slow

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

I thought SM-G actually did a good job on this episode.

So both Mirror and PU Landry were crazy militant types. Kind of like O'Brien being a nice guy in both universes. I don't know why writers do this. It's the Mirror Universe, EVERYONE IS EVIL (or good if they're EVIL in the PU). Just have fun with what is a pretty flimsy concept to begin with, geez. 0