Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x13 - "What's Past Is Prologue"

[cooleddie74]

I guess now we don't have to worry about seeing the Defiant. Clever move, guys. Stir the pot just enough to get us all whipped up and then keep the stew hidden and just out of reach.

We'll probably be seeing a Constitution-class starship soon, though.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Well, they may be out-Star Warsing Star Wars at this point. The episode was a lot of fun, if sometimes “dumb fun”.

Let me get this straight, all the people mad this isn’t real Trek are not the same people lamenting the loss of Lorca/Isaacs, right? I wonder if we’ll see an appearance by spore!Lorca emerging in the future. Maybe he’s running around the network hounding Culber. Maybe not...

Lorca did seem to lose it a bit as he achieved his goal. Perhaps they shouldn’t have wrapped it up in one episode basically. I guess the journey was better than the destination. I think they may have put too much in the FX basket and then tried to make an epic with an army of, what, 10? The action was good but light on cannon fodder.

Kind of funny, Landry seems fairly consistent with her prime counterpart though perhaps a little more competent. If anything, the prime version seemed even nastier.

It’s pretty amazing how well Doug Jones gives life to Saru considering the extent of the makeup.

 

[cooleddie74]

Saru, Stamets and Tilly are now the best of the characters we have left. Doug Jones is consistently the best actor on the show even if I have more of a soft spot for Rapp.

 

[Lord Garth]

The Ugly

1) This whining about SWJ and Lorca getting beaten up by two girls smacks of misogyny in my view. Look, have an opinion on the show = fine. Isaacs is a better actor than SMG = duh. But this idea that they had to get rid of the white male guy because he was overshadowing the black girl is Alex Jones Info Wars level stupid, and is revealing about the poster in my view.

This. 1,000 times this.

If Gergiou were a man and stabbed Lorca right then and there, and Burnham was a man, the worst any detractors would say is "That was a crappy way for Lorca to go out" and that would be the end of it.

But because it's two women, some of them (emphasis on "some of them") also scream "Social Justice Warriors"!

I thought Lorca's death was great. Not in just a conventional sense, though watching Georgiou stab him from behind after Burnham said she wouldn't kill him made for a great action sequence. But in the sense that first it shows the difference between Burnham and Georgiou. He was shown how Humans show mercy but Terrans don't. And second, he didn't go out in a blaze of glory like he probably thought he would if he were go out any particular way.

Any attempt to overthrow the Emperor was likely to end in death no matter how far he planned things out. All he had was a Burnham who he had to have known might not have his back anymore once she knew he was from the Mirror Universe and whoever was left of his followers. He imagined this crusade and it turned out to be not what he thought would happen.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Thought it was great. Edge of the seat thrill ride. Great action scenes. And even some cool "This is what the Federation/Starfleet is" speechifyin'.

 

[Xerxes82]

Huh. There were moments in this one that were quite good. But this was easily my least favorite episode of the series to date. It wasn't a bad episode, per se. But they completely abandoned all the work they put into Lorca to get here. Ugh.

Not going to lie, rather than the big Burnham/Georgieu dust up at the end, I wish we'd seen Landry betray Lorca for being willing to say he respected Saru. Shouldn't that be disqualifying in a Terran Emperor? I just genuinely hated what the did with such a wonderfully complex, challenging character. I get the whole "fate" discussion, and his weird obsession with Burnham, but it still came across like a different character. But they totally left themselves an out if they ever want to use him again, as he fell into the great time/space teleportation MacGuffin.

That said, while it was tragically disappointing, it wasn't all bad. Saru was excellent, and the whole speech he gave the crew was magnificent. I enjoyed the dichotomy that shapes what is fundamentally the divide between the two universes. People in the Federation are actively trying to see the best in people, while people in the Empire can see only the worst in them. (Though Burnham was in many ways very Mirror Universe in attitude about the Klingons at the Binary Stars. Yes, she was functionally correct both about their motivations and their actions, but she was only seeing the worst in them. While her captain was willing to offer the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.)

I'm not sure how to rate this episode. It wasn't the weakest episode of the season, just the least satisfying. 7 of 10 from a craft standpoint, but 3 of 10 for my enjoyment.

 

[Kane_Steel]

Saru, Stamets and Tilly are now the best of the characters we have left. Doug Jones is consistently the best actor on the show even if I have more of a soft spot for Rapp.

 

[SolarisOne]

I wish the whole "Social Justice Warriors" thing would die out already. The only thing I don't like about Discovery's preachy-ness, is that the writers don't seem to know what the word "nuance" means. They're being lazy with it. The prime example being making Lorca a Trump clone. It's low-hanging, fanfic level absurd, fruit. THAT is what pisses me off so much about Lorca's departure.

I honestly have zero faith in the writers now.

 

[SolarisOne]

Reset buttons are lazy, too. As much as I'd love to see PU Georgiou again, I'd rather they just continue forward and deal with the consequences.

 

[lawman]

he said there was an ionic storm when he tried to get back on his ship when emperor was about to blow it. I can accept that.

Yeah, that bit was disappointing too. His arrival in the PU was through quite literally the most directly contrived bit of exposition they could shoehorn into the episode.

In fact, it didn't even make sense as presented. Allegedly he crossed over because he was transporting aboard the Buran just as it was entering an ion storm (akin to the transporter accident in the original "Mirror, Mirror"). Except... this was also happening while the Buran was under fire from the Charon. And there's no way he could have been transporting while that was happening, because the Buran's shields would have had to be up to avoid instant destruction, and one of the most basic Known Things about Treknology is that you can't transport through shields.

I'm just trying to convince myself that getting Michelle Yeoh back is a completely fair trade for losing Jason Isaacs...

Not. Even. Close.

I really wish Stamets had said, we "overshot by...150 years" as a Sovereign class came into view.

Not that I especially want to see this ship and crew in a post-Nemesis setting... but if resolving the Klingon war storyline is going to require some time travel (which certainly appears likely, and it's increasingly obvious that this show's foreshadowing tends to be very on-the-nose), well, at least that would've put Discovery in an era where the Federation actually knows time travel to be possible, which it emphatically doesn't in 2257, nearly a decade before the events of "The Naked Time" and "Tomorrow is Yesterday."

 

[Kane_Steel]

I wish the whole "Social Justice Warriors" thing would die out already. They only thing I don't like about Discovery's preachy-ness, is that the writers don't seem to know what the word "nuance" means. They're being lazy with it. The prime example being making Lorca a Trump clone. It's low-hanging, fanfic level absurd, fruit. THAT is what pisses me off so much about Lorca's departure.

I honestly have zero faith in the writers now.

It will never die as long as the producers handle the show in the way you're describing. Devoid of subtly. They weren't very subtle about it during the press junket either.

Again, all the problems of STD are due to these two;

Aaron Harberts and Gretchen J Berg.

Not a fan of Star Trek being given to them. Almost makes you appreciate JJ Abrams.

 

[XCV330]

I wish the whole "Social Justice Warriors" thing would die out already. The only thing I don't like about Discovery's preachy-ness, is that the writers don't seem to know what the word "nuance" means. They're being lazy with it. The prime example being making Lorca a Trump clone. It's low-hanging, fanfic level absurd, fruit. THAT is what pisses me off so much about Lorca's departure.

I honestly have zero faith in the writers now.

Was Chaplin grasping low hanging fruit in 1939?
You use what voice you have.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The only thing I don't like about Discovery's preachy-ness, is that the writers don't seem to know what the word "nuance" means.

Preachyness and nuance? On Star Trek? It's like you've never seen the show.

 

[Gilora]

To quote the Klingons in ST VI, "Better to die on our feet than live on our knees."

Fun fact: that Klingon was quoting James Brown.

 

[XCV330]

Fun fact: that Klingon was quoting James Brown.

You have not experienced Get Up (I Feel Like Being a) Sex Machine until you have experienced it in the original Klingon.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Another Klingon proverb "Get up offa that thing".

 

[cooleddie74]

Jump back! CONQUER MYSELF!!!

 

[marsh8472]

I gave it a 10/10 actually. I almost jumped on the "this is too much like star wars" bandwagon during the fighting scenes but during the scene where we're seeing them flying through the m-network into the unknown made it feel like star trek again. I was glad they saved Georgiou. Glad to see Landry again too.

 

[XCV330]

I gave it a 10/10 actually. I almost jumped on the "this is too much like star wars" bandwagon in this episode during the fighting scenes but during the scene where we're seeing them flying through the m-network into the unknown made it feel like star trek again.

it did look a little like what Andromeda would look like going through slipstream with modern fx.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

2/10

After last week's complete turd I was expecting the show to pick up and be a bit better for me. Sadly not. In fact, I feel flat out pissed off after this entry. Apologies in advance for this rant of a post.

Last week on here I spoke about how I felt the show was generic sci-fi masquerading as Star Trek. Never have I felt that more than tonight.

I have said in my reviews all season that the show was showing hints here and there that it could go in the right direction in terms of retaining the spirit and intelligence of Trek, but that it was also showing signs that it could equally go the other way. I saw glimmers of hope, especially during the tardigrade episodes, and based my reviews on that. But the past two weeks have felt like an utter slap in the face. They have confirmed all my worst fears about the show and what it would be if it didn't go in the right direction.

This show is a casual mashup of standard serialised TV and a superficial Game of Thrones clone. It survives on tedious and predictable twists and the standard go to "dark and gritty" style of generic sci-fi and entertainment in general.

I think of all the "surprises" this season the only one that wasn't obvious to anyone over the age of 2 was the Mirror Phillipa going back to the prime universe - and what's up with that anyhow? We're supposed to believe space Hitler has turned over a new leaf? Puh-lease. Don't even get me started on Lorca. What an insult to the audience. These writers don't have the intelligence required to write Trek. Either that or they think that intelligent scripts can no longer work with a modern audience. Oh, and just as an aside, I echo many who consider this a waste of Isaacs, mostly because Martin-Green is sadly very engaging.

You know, the Star Trek I grew up with, and I have seen every hour ever made, dealt with intelligent themes. It spoke of positivity. It got out there and explored strange new worlds and the moral consequences of doing so. It explored our humanity. For Discovery the writers seem to think that having a minority lead and a gay couple, and a ludicrously over the top and obvious Trump allegory, shoehorned in is all they need to do over an entire season to retain the spirit of Trek. You'll never find someone more in favour of social equality and anti-Trump as me, but this all just feels patronising. It's like a tick box exercise. The show completely fails to discuss why we need a discussion about social equality and if it's going to do Trump then it needs to have a discussion about why Trump might be the wrong thing for the world, with arguments for and against like Trek always used to do. Plus in 13 episodes....13....we have seen only one new off ship alien species and a new alien planet. I mean, how the bloody hell can you honestly call something Star "Trek" and not be boldly going? You can get away with not doing that in the movies due to limited time, but in an entire season of television? Even DS9, with it's station setting, used its ships and the wormhole to boldly go.

I accept that Trek has to cater for the modern audience and adapt to a certain degree. But intelligent themes, positivity and exploration are cornerstones for any Trek TV series and should be a timeless quality. I cannot think of any season of any other Trek show that failed to tell stories of this kind. Even the much more serialised Third Season of Enterprise still was able to tell standalones and stories that gave a break from the main story arc. When you take these elements out of Trek it stops being Trek and starts being generic sci-fi drama. Well, that's fine if I am not tuning in to Trek. If I want generic sci-fi drama with a twist of the week there are lots of other shows I can watch. But this is sold to me under the name Star Trek, and with that comes a certain amount of expectation. If the writers of the show are reading this, I ask them to sit down and truly think about why Trek has survived all these decades. It sure as hell hasn't been because it was "just another show". Even the JJ Abrams movies have the excuse of not being able to tell proper Trek stories due to having limited run time. But TV is Trek's natural home and once you have all those hours available and you fail to harness the essence of Trek there is no excuses. How some Trek fans on here, of all people, can rate this 10/10 and not see the flaws in the show, is beyond me. It seems clear to me that any success this show is having is not because people are enjoying it for it's Trek qualities. Rather it's big budget sci-fi qualities that seemingly is and will keep casual viewers and casual fans on board.

The worst part of all of this? You could probably keep all of the serialisation, predictable plot twists, generic action and Game of Thrones-lite crap if the show also had intelligence, positivity and exploration. But the former is superficial and the latter the heart of the franchise. You take away the latter and you're taking away the very thing that's special about it. It's heart and brains.

You know, in this past week the Domesday Clock was turned down to two minutes. That's the lowest its been since 1953 and the closest experts believe we are to nuclear annihilation since then. Imagine that. We are closer to nuclear war than at any any point in Trek's entire history. What better time to fly the flag of positivity? To stick our fingers up at those who would take us backwards? To make people think there is a future worth striving for? To make people ponder the moral dilemmas we face in the modern age? The world needs Trek at it's best more than ever before. Instead were are getting Trek in name only. Sad.

The writers have three episodes to turn me around. The last two of this season and the first of next. If in that time I do not see hints of what makes Star Trek special and unique then, sadly, for the first time ever I will be done with the show and walk away from the franchise. Sadly I suspect the next two will be more tedious war nonsense as we wrap up the pointlessly botched Klingon arc.

I've waited 12 years for Trek's heart to return on the small screen. Come on Discovery writers. Up your game and give Star Trek back it's heart and brains. Not just it's name.

Sorry. but I think you're viewing past trek with some serious rose tinted glasses. Yeah Trek dealt with some intelligent themes but there was a lot of not so great filling in between those classic trekkian episodes. In fairness, Star Trek lost it's brains when DS9 went off the air and Voyager and later Enterprise were left to carry on the franchise. Actually it probably started losing it's brains and heart around Season 4 of Voyager when Seven of Nine came on board to boost ratings and draw in the 18 - 49 males who didn't like Janeway and were turning off in droves. Voyager became even more action orientated and dumbed down when it moved to UPN because once DS9 went off the air it couldn't carry the franchise and ratings nosedived. That is why they had to pull stunts like having a guest appearances by The Rock.

Enterprise was even worse it was dull and lifeless and had to resort to showing hot people in their underwear to maintain interest. Season 3 had to resort to an interstellar conflict and characters being morally grey and in some cases down right villainous to get people interested, however the way it was executed was poorly done and pretty unintelligent. The ratings were terrible because the fanbase didn't engage with it, as a result it got cancelled and effectively killed any chances of Trek being on television for a decade.

Discovery is far from perfect and there is a lot to be critical about but the notion that it has some how destroyed star trek isn't fair or accurate. The criticisms that you and others have regarding the show is no different to how fans responded to TNG initially and it eventually lead to the golden age of trek. Is Discovery what Star trek should be? Maybe not. But I think that is kind of the point of this season. Discovery is a science ship that has been forced to be a ship of war. The spore drive tech was usurped to be a tool of war. Lorca forced a crew of scientists to be soldiers. Nothing is as it should be or how the characters want it to be. We're seeing the characters and by extension the Federation in a very dark place where they are being forced to question and possibly sacrifice their dearly held values to survive. I think the thematic reason for Mirror Georgiou coming over to the PU is so that the characters literally have a sobering mirror to look into to provide them with context, that despite their desperation the solution offered by MU Georgiou is not a solution at all and there will have to be another way to end the klingon war other than violence . This season for me has been, to borrow an addiction analogy, about what happens when you hit rock bottom and have to work your way back up and better yourself. The showrunners have already stated that the Klingon war is done at the end of this season. My guess is that next season will be about, to borrow another addiction analogy, recovery and healing, which will be done through Discovery living up to its name and seeking out strange new worlds.

I don't say these things to be critical of you, but to hopefully give some perspective. Don't give up on trek because it's in a dark place right now. It will get to where it should be and we may even end up having a new golden age of trek.

Have faith.

Faith of the heart.