Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x13 - "What's Past Is Prologue"

[XCV330]

Mary Sue is one of those terms like Baby Bump I'd like to see buried in some phrase graveyard. I get what the term is, I get that it's a bonafide Trekker invention, but the danger of calling tropes all the time is that it doesn't allow for variations on a theme. Vox populi est vox tedium. There are only so many characters, only so many stories, everything is a variation on a limited number of themes. Anyway, I like Burnham's character, and she's been more interesting and relatable since the Mirror Universe episodes started.

 

[ITDUDE]

A decent 7/10, that's closer to what Star Trek should be. If they can keep it up, there is a chance for STD.
But now that they are back in PU, I hope they don't regress.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm going with 9.5

 

[CaptainMurdock]

I guess they don't have steady cams in the Mirror Universe. The camera bobbing up and down during Michael's and Lorca's conversation in the thrown room was really annoying.

 

[Ometiklan]

This is demonstrably false. Isaacs himself said when he first began shooting they handed him a script for the third episode, and then immediately told him the script would be pulped and nothing in it was going to be used. The final two episodes were also tacked on late in production when the season was expanded from 13 to 15 episodes. IIRC, they didn't finish filming the last episode before the first episode premiered.

Now, it's true that they are in no way retooling the show on the fly as a result of fan response. But they certainly didn't have a solid plan before filming even started - or if they did, it was abandoned when Fuller left.

Yeah, they retooled at some point after Fuller left, but the point is that they haven't, to this point, been able to retool anything in response to fan feedback (unless there is something in maybe the last episode or two) and especially not to push an agenda contrary to the preferences of some of the audience or to focus on better received characters. Isaacs was probably cast in the October 2016-Jan 2017 timeframe, so very early on in scripting. The plan they developed for Lorca came about with a lot of input from Isaacs (according to Isaacs), but probably just affecting his character's portrayal and the reveal of the Mirror Universe. The focus was always on Burnham and they wouldn't have upended the whole focus of the show based on who they cast for the non-primary character role of captain of the Discovery.

If the ISS Discovery isn't in Prime Time, where the hell is it? Was it just kicking back on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet while Michael and the gang destroyed the Charon?

I think it was destroyed in the battle with the rebels that produced the debris field the USS Discovery jumped into upon its arrival in the Mirror Universe.

 

[thribs]

Interesting clip from next episode shown in After Trek:

Spoiler

Admiral Cornwell and Sarek Comandeer Discovery looking for Lorca. They figured out he is from MU? We see PU Andorians and Tellerites.

How? No one is supposed to know about the Mitror universe at this present time.
That only makes sense if the ISS Discovery is around.

 

[Refuge]

<----- See the outraged Capuchin in my avatar? That's pretty much me right now.

I gave last episode a 10. This one got a 1. I would have given it a 0, if that had been possible. They completely fucked up Lorca. Then, they completely fucked up his exit. His dialogue was horrid this time around, too. I have to hear He Who Shall Not Be Named talk in real life more than enough. I don't need my fictional characters sounding just like said person, almost word for word, thank you. They have at least one novelist on staff and can't do better than that?!

As much as I love Michelle Yeoh's badassery, it just didn't make up for how they handled Lorca.

They really took the spore nonsense to greater heights in this episode, too.

Hero to zero huh? I hate to say it but what redeeming features are left?

 

[GeekUSACarl]

My point is just that your claim about the story already being written by the time that SMG and Issacs were cast is false. Large portions of the story were almost certainly incomplete, if not entirely missing, by that time.

You're telling me by the time they cast SMG they were still playing around with the ideas so much that Lorca coulda possibly been the lead character in the story? Or Tilly? Or Stamets?

Come on man.

 

[thribs]

They ought to bring in an Edward Jellico-type captain in the next season who everyone thinks is evil. Maybe Ron Tracey?

He was evil. I’ve seen Stargate.

 

[Lord Garth]

AfterTrek: "Our world is like the Mirror Universe."

Me: "Actually, I think our world is more like the Alternate 1985 in Back to the Future, Part II."

 

[thribs]

It took most other trek shows at least 3 years

What do you mean? The others were ensemble casts at the beginning.

 

[eschaton]

You're telling me by the time they cast SMG they were still playing around with the ideas so much that Lorca coulda possibly been the lead character in the story? Or Tilly? Or Stamets?

Come on man.

No. Other people might have been arguing that, but I wasn't.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I think it was destroyed in the battle with the rebels that produced the debris field the USS Discovery jumped into upon its arrival in the Mirror Universe.

They analyzed that debris and probably would've noticed um.. Terran parts matching their ship. It just doesn't seem likely to me. If there's no clue or hint next episode, then I shall expect them to return when Discovery feels the need for more mirror madness.

 

[lawman]

Well. That was disappointing.

Just getting this out before I wade into everybody's else's comments here...

That was basically the least satisfying approach they could've taken to wrapping up the MU arc. Lots of the setup seemed promising, at least enough to withhold judgment, but what did we wind up getting?...

• Lorca, despite all the previous complexity we've seen from him, was treated as just a mustache-twirling two-dimensional villain in the end... from the moment they had him mouth a speech evocative of Trump(!) it was obvious he was irredeemable and wouldn't survive.
• Meanwhile Burnham trusted the Emperor, and despite all the red flags in the previous episode that she was a manipulative, murderous psychopath, she actually lived up to that trust... even though she had zero motivation to cooperate with Burnham's plan.
• That plan itself was as desperate as desperate gets, yet somehow it succeeded, thanks to the kind of plot armor that lets a pair of isolated protagonists take on a room full of heavily armed soldiers and win through implausibly choreographed hand-to-hand combat.
• Meanwhile aboard the Discovery, the stakes were raised to implausibly multiverse-threatening proportions, all to justify a suicidal counterplan, which wound up not actually being suicidal thanks only to technobabble worthy of TNG at its babbliest.
• At the end everything wrapped up completely predictably, except for the supposed "twist" involving the outcome of the Klingon war, about which there is the precise opposite of suspense because of course we know the Federation will survive, and instead just a sense of dejection about how the story will play out because it basically means the reset button at the end will have to be even less plausible than we were already expecting.

Bleah. I was really, really hoping for better.

 

[Pure Antiproton]

Not my favorite episode. Somewhat disappointed Lorca wasn’t redeemable. I loved him as captain. Jason Issacs was off the hook every week.

I do like where they ended up and can’t wait to see how they handle being back in PU. Saru is getting better every episode.

 

[Shon T'Hara]

Sad that you're so easily triggered. But I can recall multiple instances during the press junket where the producers mentioned the socio-political intentions with the series and what they were trying to push. They weren't shy about doing that.

Have you ... like ... ever watched Star Trek before? If this is what you consider "SJW" writing, then Gene Roddenberry, Gene Coon and DC Fontana were Social Justice Berserkers.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

2/10

After last week's complete turd I was expecting the show to pick up and be a bit better for me. Sadly not. In fact, I feel flat out pissed off after this entry. Apologies in advance for this rant of a post.

Last week on here I spoke about how I felt the show was generic sci-fi masquerading as Star Trek. Never have I felt that more than tonight.

I have said in my reviews all season that the show was showing hints here and there that it could go in the right direction in terms of retaining the spirit and intelligence of Trek, but that it was also showing signs that it could equally go the other way. I saw glimmers of hope, especially during the tardigrade episodes, and based my reviews on that. But the past two weeks have felt like an utter slap in the face. They have confirmed all my worst fears about the show and what it would be if it didn't go in the right direction.

This show is a casual mashup of standard serialised TV and a superficial Game of Thrones clone. It survives on tedious and predictable twists and the standard go to "dark and gritty" style of generic sci-fi and entertainment in general.

I think of all the "surprises" this season the only one that wasn't obvious to anyone over the age of 2 was the Mirror Phillipa going back to the prime universe - and what's up with that anyhow? We're supposed to believe space Hitler has turned over a new leaf? Puh-lease. Don't even get me started on Lorca. What an insult to the audience. These writers don't have the intelligence required to write Trek. Either that or they think that intelligent scripts can no longer work with a modern audience. Oh, and just as an aside, I echo many who consider this a waste of Isaacs, mostly because Martin-Green is sadly very engaging.

You know, the Star Trek I grew up with, and I have seen every hour ever made, dealt with intelligent themes. It spoke of positivity. It got out there and explored strange new worlds and the moral consequences of doing so. It explored our humanity. For Discovery the writers seem to think that having a minority lead and a gay couple, and a ludicrously over the top and obvious Trump allegory, shoehorned in is all they need to do over an entire season to retain the spirit of Trek. You'll never find someone more in favour of social equality and anti-Trump as me, but this all just feels patronising. It's like a tick box exercise. The show completely fails to discuss why we need a discussion about social equality and if it's going to do Trump then it needs to have a discussion about why Trump might be the wrong thing for the world, with arguments for and against like Trek always used to do. Plus in 13 episodes....13....we have seen only one new off ship alien species and a new alien planet. I mean, how the bloody hell can you honestly call something Star "Trek" and not be boldly going? You can get away with not doing that in the movies due to limited time, but in an entire season of television? Even DS9, with it's station setting, used its ships and the wormhole to boldly go.

I accept that Trek has to cater for the modern audience and adapt to a certain degree. But intelligent themes, positivity and exploration are cornerstones for any Trek TV series and should be a timeless quality. I cannot think of any season of any other Trek show that failed to tell stories of this kind. Even the much more serialised Third Season of Enterprise still was able to tell standalones and stories that gave a break from the main story arc. When you take these elements out of Trek it stops being Trek and starts being generic sci-fi drama. Well, that's fine if I am not tuning in to Trek. If I want generic sci-fi drama with a twist of the week there are lots of other shows I can watch. But this is sold to me under the name Star Trek, and with that comes a certain amount of expectation. If the writers of the show are reading this, I ask them to sit down and truly think about why Trek has survived all these decades. It sure as hell hasn't been because it was "just another show". Even the JJ Abrams movies have the excuse of not being able to tell proper Trek stories due to having limited run time. But TV is Trek's natural home and once you have all those hours available and you fail to harness the essence of Trek there is no excuses. How some Trek fans on here, of all people, can rate this 10/10 and not see the flaws in the show, is beyond me. It seems clear to me that any success this show is having is not because people are enjoying it for it's Trek qualities. Rather it's big budget sci-fi qualities that seemingly is and will keep casual viewers and casual fans on board.

The worst part of all of this? You could probably keep all of the serialisation, predictable plot twists, generic action and Game of Thrones-lite crap if the show also had intelligence, positivity and exploration. But the former is superficial and the latter the heart of the franchise. You take away the latter and you're taking away the very thing that's special about it. It's heart and brains.

You know, in this past week the Domesday Clock was turned down to two minutes. That's the lowest its been since 1953 and the closest experts believe we are to nuclear annihilation since then. Imagine that. We are closer to nuclear war than at any any point in Trek's entire history. What better time to fly the flag of positivity? To stick our fingers up at those who would take us backwards? To make people think there is a future worth striving for? To make people ponder the moral dilemmas we face in the modern age? The world needs Trek at it's best more than ever before. Instead were are getting Trek in name only. Sad.

The writers have three episodes to turn me around. The last two of this season and the first of next. If in that time I do not see hints of what makes Star Trek special and unique then, sadly, for the first time ever I will be done with the show and walk away from the franchise. Sadly I suspect the next two will be more tedious war nonsense as we wrap up the pointlessly botched Klingon arc.

I've waited 12 years for Trek's heart to return on the small screen. Come on Discovery writers. Up your game and give Star Trek back it's heart and brains. Not just it's name.

 

[Ometiklan]

How? No one is supposed to know about the Mitror universe at this present time.
That only makes sense if the ISS Discovery is around.

My feeling from the clip is that the USS Discovery goes missing for 9 months, just when they have the key to the Klingon cloaks. It pops out of nowhere and Starfleet is worried that the Discovery defected or was captured. When Discovery is boarded, Admiral Cornwell is looking for Captain Lorca not because they know he is mirror (cause no one on the ISS Discovery even knew that) but because they need to talk to Discovery's captain.

 

[137th Gebirg]

The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

Honestly, this sounds more like Tilly than Burnham.

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, that was better than last week's episode. Barely.

If that was the entire MU arc then...eh.