Everything Discovery has abandoned over the course of this season...

[fireproof78]

Hmm I could see it. Perhaps a mix of both?

 

[Vger23]

Addressing these point-by-point...

Any sense that Micheal Burnham being raised by Vulcans meant anything regarding her personality -- Maybe.

Any idea that Burnham had Klingon-related PTSD and/or might be a bit racist towards Klingons -- I never got the sense she has PTSD. Just remorse.

The tight narrative focus on Burnham. She used to be The Very Special Protagonist who solved everything and saved the day. Now she just leads the "A plot" each week, and is being led around by the nose by Georgiou and Lorca ATM -- At the moment.

Saru having any character traits whatsoever. He used to be a coward who was resentful towards Burnham, which was shitty characterization, but it was something. Now he's just a generic XO with no personality - only saved by Doug Jones's performance. -- He's growing into the role of having more responsibility. He's the XO instead just someone who wants to be. He does have a personality. He's a bit too stiff and proper. He's also had to cope with making harder and harder choices. Major progress that he no longer feels the need to compare himself to other Captains and has finally begun to accept Burnham.

Tilly changing from a very weird, possibly ASD character to just slightly adorkable -- She's come out of her shell maybe for the first time in her life. She probably didn't get to socialize much before and probably felt like an outsider at the Academy and probably when she was growing up. I know because I used to be like this, until college.

The mysterious black badges and floating water seen in the third episode -- Yes. That's disappeared.

The idea that Discovery is a special science ship researching all kinds of black-ops tech, rather than just the spore-drive machine -- The jury's still out on that one.

Stamets being a grumpy jerk -- He didn't like being assigned to Discovery at first. But then he found his niche. And he found Culber. That made him happy. Those make him not be a grumpy jerk anymore.

Klingons speaking in their own language with subtitles - The last time we see a Klingon ship was in "Into the Forest I Go" where it makes sense that Klingons would be speaking in subtitles because they'd be surrounded by other Klingons. We haven't had that since. So, we have the Universal Translator.

The idea that the 24 houses of the Klingon Empire were going to actually mean something -- It still might. Don't jump to conclusions. Just because Kol's ship was destroyed doesn't mean the 24 houses won't unite. Kol wasn't as important as he fancied himself to be. Plus they went out of their way to mention in "The Wolf Inside" that the Klingons uniting in the Mirror Universe might be the key to them making peace if the Klingons in the Prime Universe unite.

The "lower decks" concept. Originally Tilly was just in the show because she happened to be Burnham's roommate. Now she's doing officer-level work as a cadet just because she's a main cast member and must be doing something. Some of this can be attributed in-universe to character growth, but IMHO that's headcannon, they were trying to tweak the show as each script was finished. -- As she shows she can do more, she's being given more responsibility. That's not head-canon. That's common sense. When she graduates she'll have a leg up on other graduates who weren't doing all this. To date not much has been done with most of the bridge crew. Sure we see them, seeing them at all is about all we do. I have no idea who the bridge crew is besides what they look like. So it's still a lower decks and non-bridge crew focus.

I love the element you responded to regarding Saru being a generic XO with a shitty personality.

Because...you know...THAT'S never happened before.

 

[Refuge]

It isn't unreasonable, IMHO.

This is set only 10 years before TOS. I would think that at least some of the styles should start looking like "60s future" style.

I really don't think Discovery will last the distance to merge into a '60s' future.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

The worst thing about that scene was how...contemporary...it was. One thing Trek has always been bad at doing is conveying that the future is a somewhat culturally alien place, and here people are dancing to (relatively) contemporary music and drinking from red cups.

It was an ancient vintage throw back for them.

Why are stuffy starfleet people always listening to classical music or vintage lounge music? You don't think they'd ever have a throwback party of another kind?

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Another abandoned thread: the Vulcan "logic extremists". They attacked the learning center and almost killed Burnham when she was young, then they almost killed Sarek, and then... never mentioned again after that one episode.

 

[Lord Garth]

I love the element you responded to regarding Saru being a generic XO with a shitty personality.

Because...you know...THAT'S never happened before.

You'd think Chakotay -- being a leader in the Maquis, fighting the good fight, would've had more fire to him than he did. Most of the time, he felt like a Human Resources Manager.

While he was a pacifist who only fought when he felt he had to, you'd think that would've given him a lot more spirit.

 

[Refuge]

Another abandoned thread: the Vulcan "logic extremists". They attacked the learning center and almost killed Burnham when she was young, then they almost killed Sarek, and then... never mentioned again after that one episode.

Why did they bother with this story line?

 

[Refuge]

As opposed to every other Trek series that only shows Classical Music or Jazz right? Oh and god forbid they have a party that actually looks and feels like a real party...

Jesus Christ.

Who cares about every other Star Trek? It's Discovery that is on trial.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It was an ancient vintage throw back for them.

Why are stuffy starfleet people always listening to classical music or vintage lounge music? You don't think they'd ever have a throwback party of another kind?

Because Star Trek isn't supposed to have humor, so sayeth the Roddenberry. It must be a dull affair, where plot details are spoon fed to the audience and all problems are solved by carefully explained "science". Human personalities might get in the way of the precious fake science facts, we need them so we can think we've smart for memorizing it and debate it endlessly.

I thought it was a nice story element where the relaxed nature of the event, allowed Burnham to relax and farther develop her character. We learn a lot during those party scenes. We know she's never been in a relationship before and that she has feelings for Tyler, setting up their romance. This is a different form of storytelling than Trek is used to. The show is essentially Michael's story and the other characters all serve to farther her development in some way. They develop too, but the series is about her going from Starfleet's only mutineer to officer again (where she goes we don't know yet). It isn't about the Klingon War or the MU, it's those events framed through the life of Michael Burnham.

 

[Refuge]

^That's crap. Roddenberry's Star Trek had more humour than Discovery ever will have. Discovery takes itself so seriously and what was the point of Michael's angst? She ends up with Tyler who is not Tyler but Voq. There's no music that makes that sound right.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It is the single most immature Star Trek show ever made. It's just pew pew action and gore and sex.

What show have YOU been watching?

*scrolls up a bit*

Oh wait, you're upset at the party scene. I'll take a dozen of those over one Captain Proton/Dixon Hill/Sherlock Holmes holodeck recreational "fun". Or when everyone goes to Ten Forward to listen to the crew play some musical instruments.

 

[Refuge]

What show have YOU been watching?

*scrolls up a bit*

Oh wait, you're upset at the party scene. I'll take a dozen of those over one Captain Proton/Dixon Hill/Sherlock Holmes holodeck recreational "fun". Or when everyone goes to Ten Forward to listen to the crew play some musical instruments.

What show have you been watching? I'll take any thing from any other Trek than the Star Dreck of one of Discovery's try hard Bee Gee moments

 

[Awesome Possum]

^That's crap. Roddenberry's Star Trek had more humour than Discovery ever will have. Discovery takes itself so seriously and what was the point of Michael's angst? She ends up with Tyler who is not Tyler but Voq. There's no music that makes that sound right.

You're complaining that things happen to characters during the show. Do you prefer they stay static, so you can constantly know what's happening if you miss a bit?

 

[Refuge]

You're complaining that things happen to characters during the show. Do you prefer they stay static, so you can constantly know what's happening if you miss a bit?

What?? I was talking about humour and music.

 

[Hythlodeus]

is literally aimed at a teenage audience. It is the single most immature Star Trek show ever made. It's just pew pew action and gore and sex.

I agree, but enough about the terrible sexist immature T'Pol sexploitation, let's focus on Discovery here

 

[jaime]

I must admit to not seeing this point of view before! As a female I was noticing those (supposed) original deaths of Georgiou and even Landry. I was even somewhat lamenting that the Shenzhou (captained by a woman with a woman next in command) was not going to be more than a prop. For some reason I thought before Discovery (the show) was being marketed we were gearing ourselves up for something new in concept. TWO Starships with two active crews. Another abandoned or misled feature of 'Discovery'. I still had hopes of Cornwell being made a bigger role.

Anyway your comment "teaching boys that we are expendable meat bags, marinated in violence, annoys me also." There is an element of that. I need to think more on it.

I really like the Cornwell character, and was ready to like Landry...but they made her meh. Probably to highlight that her MU version is actually good and honourable now she reappears. Cornwell is getting plot armour though, so I hope they actually use the character having gone to such lengths to keep her alive. That’s what I mean about knowing these subjects can be..difficult to discuss. There’s so many fights about presentation in DSC that bits of noticeable inequality just slide.
I wanted Landry to stick around. First West Asian character in Trek! Turns outta be an arse and gets killed so Burnham can look better, and Ash can be introduced. Wherever his actor is from, his character is from Seattle. And now we have a sleeper agent in an Eastern looking American character. I think they fall into this messy subtext without thinking things through.

 

[Refuge]

I agree, but enough about the terrible sexist immature T'Pol sexploitation, let's focus on Discovery here

Promise? Focusing on Discovery alone and not comparing it with other Trek? Yeah

 

[jaime]

Teaching boys?

If representation is supposed to be something that helps people see their roles... ‘I can be a scientist, even though I am black and female, look at burnham’ (though god knows why those things should stop you in the first place, they shouldn’t) then consistently showing Male characters suffering and dying also sets up sense of your place in the order of things. *shrug*
DSC is too violent for my little one anyway, but the only Male character not tortured or killed is Saru. And they ate his lookalike this week for dinner.

 

[Refuge]

I really like the Cornwell character, and was ready to like Landry...but they made her meh. Probably to highlight that her MU version is actually good and honourable now she reappears. Cornwell is getting plot armour though, so I hope they actually use the character having gone to such lengths to keep her alive. That’s what I mean about knowing these subjects can be..difficult to discuss. There’s so many fights about presentation in DSC that bits of noticeable inequality just slide.
I wanted Landry to stick around. First West Asian character in Trek! Turns outta be an arse and gets killed so Burnham can look better, and Ash can be introduced. Wherever his actor is from, his character is from Seattle. And now we have a sleeper agent in an Eastern looking American character. I think they fall into this messy subtext without thinking things through.

So often a show will have its set characters and then surprisingly one emerges from the background. I love that when it happens.

Landry was literally thrown under the tardigrade.

 

[Awesome Possum]

What?? I was talking about humour and music.

Then you shouldn't have gone onto Tyler and Burnham. Why even mention it if it weren't your point?

As for humor, who cares. You're arguing over taste in humor now. All of them have had it, before it was usually so dry it turned to dust. Hell, one of them turned into decades of debate over its meaning.