Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"

[Smoked Salmon]

Ok I do love William Shatner - but calling him an A actor could be a stretch. He does have a charisma factor - but I would bet Patrick Stewart and Jason Isaacs were getting "A"s in acting class - and William Shatners best bet for getting an "A" would have been sleeping with the teacher.

Shatner is an RSC trained actor.

Point is, whatever you thought of him, the man performed well enough that his character was engaging and became a cultural icon. You cannot say that about Martin-Green. She lacks the powerful lead actor quality that past Trek leads have had. For her sake I desperately hope she finds it, but she totally lacks gravitas for me. That’s why I mentioned names like Viola Davis. The role needed talent.

 

[eschaton]

You need you overall story planned out in advance but you need to provide room and flexibility if things needs to be chaned around. The best show at doing this was Babylon 5. He had his 5 year plan worked out but he also had put in escape clauses for if actors left or what not and had other ways to get to where he wanted to be. One of the big changes was originally Sheridan wasn't supposed to leave after 1 season but it made sense to do so and moved that up in his timeline and I know there were several other times he had to adjust his original plan but it was set up in a way where he could if and when needed. .

You should have your general "arc" planned out ahead of time. Certainly the mythos you wish to explore as well should be at least penciled in. But things like character development should be more freeform, at least initially, because until the first season is done you don't know the audience response. If there's a beakout character you need to let them shine. If there's a popular ship, maybe you should consider it. But this can only happen if you let the story flow organically.

 

[Gepard]

I honestly think they basically did 1-3 on plan, realised these ideas were all terrible and quickly rewrote what they had to work with. That's what it feels like. The first "half" of the season is a mess of aborted ideas and wonky writing.

I'm convinced the original plan was that Lorca was Section 31. Aside from the couple of "3" and "1" references in the first handful of episodes (that have also been dropped) there were the black badges in episode 3 that haven't been seen since.

At any rate he wasn't going to be from the MU – the initial presentation of his eye condition felt like Prestige Television-styled thematic content rather than a plot point.

 

[Krandor]

I would say he probably would take precautions to see his double dead, but there is always the matter that however much a survivor and however crafty MU Lorca is, his prime counterpart probably was/is as well. He might still be out there.

I think he's likely dead but you are right we don't know. It is possible he came to the MU when Lorca went to PU and is out there hiding somwhere.

 

[XCV330]

My prediction is they will never get back to the Prime universe. How on
Earth is Starfleet going to stop over 430 people from talking about it so that ten years later Kirk's crew end up there having no information about the place?
Or the crew will end up in the Prime universe because they never came from there in the first place. According to TOS the Klingon war ended when the Organians stepped in, there was no major galactic war before Errand of mercy

They could come back into prime universe after the TOS era ends. Maybe show up and accidentally bump the Bozeman into a time-warp.

 

[Nyotarules]

I have a feeling that the producers promise to bring Discovery more in line with established canon will leave us all with our jaws on the floor, some how.

The whole show is Admiral Archer's nightmare brought on by too much Romulan ale which is why it was made illegal.

 

[eschaton]

Point is, whatever you thought of him, the man performed well enough that his character was engaging and became a cultural icon. You cannot say that about Martin-Green. She lacks the powerful lead actor quality that past Trek leads have had. For her sake I desperately hope she finds it, but she totally lacks gravitas for me. That’s why I mentioned names like Viola Davis. The role needed talent.

Honestly, SMG is barely the lead any longer.

If you look back at the first four episodes virtually everything was from her POV. The other main characters barely even talked to each other unless it was needed to move along a vital plot point. We only saw a handful of scenes (mostly Klingon related) where Burnham wasn't in the room.

This changed once the series shifted to a more normal Trek A/B structure. Now Burnham really only moves along one of the plotlines in each of the episodes. And Saru, Tilly, and Stamets in their own way are getting to 'save the day" just as much as she is.

 

[Sakonna]

I expressed myself at some length on this after last week's ep so I won't repeat it all - I had discharged my rage on this issue in my '5' rating for that ep - but I agree, and I would actually go slightly further - I don't feel a resurrection story, if one is coming, undoes the trope and arguably makes it even more unnecessary.

I totally agree with that. If Culber is resurrected, I'll be off the "cancel CBSAA and never look back" ledge, but it would remain a highly problematic story any writer today -- especially gay writers -- should have had the basic sense to stay away from.

They've done absolutely no worldbuilding with Discovery so it's hard to guess what they have planned.
My hope is legitimately Reset at the end of this Season through time warp mycelium network nonsense, then the writers watch A LOT of DS9 and S3/4 of ENT and learn how to do serialised Trek properly and then have S2 be what S1 should have been, actually developing a good cast of characters and building the world up so stakes actually matter.

DS9 did it so well with the rumours of the Dominion trickling in, then actually starting to explore the Gamma Quadrant and hearing more about the Dominion, then encountering the Dominion, then the tensions racketing up then the actual conflict breaking out.
Over seasons this took place and through it you learned to love the setting, the characters, the world and by the time the conflict breaks out the stakes are sky high.

I'm also hoping for some form of a reset. I was really hoping we were going to get a home-run incredible first season of Discovery, the way most successful big-budget serialized streaming shows manage to do these days, but I now have to admit we're getting a TNG/DS9/VOY first season instead... the characters are great, the potential is everywhere, but story- and plotting-wise they fall down constantly and ultimately the season is failing.

But, as we see from TNG & DS9, a rough first season doesn't necessarily mean the show isn't going to figure itself out and become truly great down the line.

I do think it's problematic that we know we're getting the same showrunners next season. At this point I think it's clear this show is not a fit for them and I was hoping they would be replaced before season 2.

I don't see killing Culber as a "kill your gays" situation. I actually think he will be back. But you might find it interesting that not only is the creator of the show, Bryan Fuller, gay, but so is co-showrunner Aaron Harberts. Also, Jordan Nardino, the writer of this episode, is gay. With that amount of diversity on staff, I doubt that killing Culber belongs in the "kill your gays" discussion.

I knew all that. But Fuller is long gone and Harberts/Berg really seem more and more clueless about how their decisions actually play. I remain amazed at all their interview talk about how the Klingons have been thinly conceived jokes in previous series, and Discovery was going to really flesh out their society and give us much more developed Klingon characters, when the exact opposite is true!

 

[Romulan_spy]

In fairness, the MU would certainly fall in that category.

Yes it does, but too many episodes in the MU is making the show too dark. Popular Mechanic has a review of this episode entitled, "Discovery is losing itself in darkness" that echoes what I am saying: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cul...r-trek-discovery-episode-12-vaulting-ambition

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

This closely sums it up for me. It's somewhat entertaining Sci-Fi, but in many ways seems Trek in name only. [...] I've been a fan since TOS, all the way through to the present. Each series has held a special place inside me and the love for the show has consistently been rooted in character development/relationships. I cared about those series characters. With every passing episode, the reality that I most likely won't ever care for the characters in DSC disappoints me.

That's what made it so easy for me to walk away at the mid-season break. From what I've read here over the past couple weeks, it was the right choice.

 

[XCV330]

My thoughts too. Either way, he definitely would have needed to be there to time the switch perfectly.

Still don't know how Lorca made it over, though.

 

[Captain Killy]

Star Trek has magic floorboards that can produce gravity without also making people one floor down fly up to the ceiling below when they jump. It also tends to nullify inertia most of the time, and when it fails, it only fails one one or two axis points.
They've been showing repulsor tech for so long, I can handle her magic throwing star. It actually kind of makes sense. Why don't Klingons have those?

Her performance was very camp but I think that's what they were looking for. She delivered it. I like the costuming.

Giving Michelle Yeoh a Wuxia weapon was pure genius and very fitting

 

[cbl1]

Shatner is an RSC trained actor.

Point is, whatever you thought of him, the man performed well enough that his character was engaging and became a cultural icon. You cannot say that about Martin-Green.

Whatever his credentials - my personal opinion remains that while he may not be the highest caliber of actor he more than makes up for it in his charisma and ability to engage the audience. Look at Ricardo Montalban - I put him in the same category and he is an icon as well. Now as for SMG - I'm not a fan. I think she is adequate for the role on Discovery. I just think she should be one of an ensemble cast - not the primary focus. However, with the way the current storyline has played out you can see why she had to be the main focus this year.

No matter what I think of him? I said I was a Shatner fan. He is an icon.

 

[eschaton]

I do think it's problematic that we know we're getting the same showrunners next season. At this point I think it's clear this show is not a fit for them and I was hoping they would be replaced before season 2.

What's Ronald D. Moore doing right now?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Still don't know how Lorca made it over, though.

He and MU Stamets may have been working together in order to overthrow Georgiou. Perhaps they were able to get a single person to cross the boundary with the Mycelial network but wasn't advanced enough to jump a whole ship.

 

[Long Syntax]

That's what made it so easy for me to walk away at the mid-season break. From what I've read here over the past couple weeks, it was the right choice.

The deal I made in my head was watching the whole first season and not bailing early, because I know there can be some stinker episodes and I thought it best to give any final judgement the benefit of seeing the whole first season. Having said that, I understand your decision and respect it. I'll have a decision to make myself when season two comes around.

 

[XCV330]

What's Ronald D. Moore doing right now?

So we can get Klingons yelling about honor every two lines in the script?

 

[Nyotarules]

These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before".

This is Enterprise mission statement, the show is not about Enterprise

 

[eschaton]

He and MU Stamets may have been working together in order to overthrow Georgiou. Perhaps they were able to get a single person to cross the boundary with the Mycelial network but wasn't advanced enough to jump a whole ship.

They absolutely have to be working together. As I noted, somehow Lorca knew not only how to get into the prime universe, but to get a hold of not only Burnham but Stamets. He explicitly drafted him from a civilian role and got him on-board the Discovery.

So we can get Klingons yelling about honor every two lines in the script?

He knows Trek, he can write, he understands how to build flawed, compelling characters, and he is a successful showrunner. What more could you ask for?

 

[Lord Garth]

I rated this a 9 but I'll have to re-rate it a 10.

That's not the same as saying it's "perfect". But it disturbed me (including the served Kelbian) and I was so invested in what was going on that I was really getting into it and got really pissed off about Lorca (as seen above). That almost never happens when I watch a show.

Georgiou makes for a great black-hatted villainess, down to using Prime Georgiou's Starfleet Insignia to kill almost everyone in the room.

Saru got to show his stones in this episode as well and managed to make L'Rell operate on Ash/Voq.

The interactions between the Stametses and Culber in whatever they're in was golden.

I'm still thinking about the episode now. Sure it was only 37 minutes, but they sure used those 37.