I'm sorry, I think you have that backwards. It was your remark that I was referring to as "words and stuff".
Spoilers What happened the night the Ben turned on Luke
- Thread starter JD
- Start date
I'm sorry, I think you have that backwards. It was your remark that I was referring to as "words and stuff".
That's what I meant. All the info, character profiles, starship and costume design books released back when TPM came out. Anakin and Padme's ages weren't given in the movie either, but they were in the books.
And the hero who made the right choice when all others advised him to do something else.
Obi Wan Keniobi, Han Solo, Princess Leia.
I have no problem with character development but making Luke do something out of character because you don't know what else to do with him and he because he needs some kind of arc in the movie is a weak move. At the end of the day Luke did something that I just didn't believe he would do and it took me out of the movie.
Even Mark Hamill, who played the character 40 years ago, who knows Luke better than any of us, with the exception of perhaps George Lucas, disagreed with the way Luke turns out in this movie. That in itself is pretty damning.
Is allowed to make mistakes, and shouldn't be treated as infallible.
Depends on which out of character thing you might be referring. The considering taking his nephew's life? He did that with his father even after he knew who Vader was and had decided he didn't want to fight his father. He did consider and almost did take Vader's life...but stopped himself upon realizing what he was doing. Here, Luke considered and nearly acted on his instincts to end the evil that would become Kylo Ren before it really grew, but stopped himself before making the swing because Luke is Luke....but Ben Solo is a reactionary sort who will bring down the ceiling, burn down the temple, and murder all the Jedi who won't follow him, than move in with Snoke to take over the galaxy like his grandfather tried to do decades ago.
If it was him running way? Luke failed. He wanted to go away, be forgotten. He hadn't lived up to his own legends and he was afraid of what might happen if he tried to train anyone else, not knowing what Ben Solo was doing afterwards. He'd failed worse than Obi-wan Kenobi, and that hurt Luke deeply. So much that he went of someplace were he could die forgotten. It is entirely possible he could have just died, but because of how the Force seems to work, he could only fade away if he was in balance...at peace, but his guilt and fear kept him from this balance and he thus cut himself off from the Force. To hide from the galaxy.
Luke didn't make that map for people to find him. The map was made so Luke could find the First Temple. I gather that Luke went there with R2, but didn't want to keep R2 there, so had Lor come with them to take R2 back to Leia, or Lor had the map to start with, used R2's maps to find the place to set Luke's X-wing up with the coordinates, took the piece out of the overall map. Lor kept the map fragment because of his own faith. R2 had the rest of the map normally (since Luke would never wipe his droids), and was sent back to Leia. Luke than took off for the temple, never to return.
If it was him running way? Luke failed. He wanted to go away, be forgotten. He hadn't lived up to his own legends and he was afraid of what might happen if he tried to train anyone else, not knowing what Ben Solo was doing afterwards. He'd failed worse than Obi-wan Kenobi, and that hurt Luke deeply. So much that he went of someplace were he could die forgotten. It is entirely possible he could have just died, but because of how the Force seems to work, he could only fade away if he was in balance...at peace, but his guilt and fear kept him from this balance and he thus cut himself off from the Force. To hide from the galaxy.
Luke didn't make that map for people to find him. The map was made so Luke could find the First Temple. I gather that Luke went there with R2, but didn't want to keep R2 there, so had Lor come with them to take R2 back to Leia, or Lor had the map to start with, used R2's maps to find the place to set Luke's X-wing up with the coordinates, took the piece out of the overall map. Lor kept the map fragment because of his own faith. R2 had the rest of the map normally (since Luke would never wipe his droids), and was sent back to Leia. Luke than took off for the temple, never to return.
Yes, but in this case he was goaded into trying to kill Vader. Both Vader and the Emperor were trying to make Luke turn, there was conflict inside Luke, he was fighting for the fate of the galaxy, from turning to the dark side and his own life, all that was why he almost killed Vader and became his replacement. Vader, a man who had already done terrible things Vs. Ben Solo a boy who did nothing. Luke was a man, a Jedi Master, a teacher, with his own students, not some conflicted kid 3 years out from the sand farm. There is no threat from a sleeping boy to a wise man who has already been through this shit, with his father Vader and almost turning to the darkside himself.
Fear makes people do strange things, especially when you have seen the devastation the Dark Side can reek. He sensed the great power in Ben (as he told Rey) and he sensed the great darkness.
For all his strengths, your point about Luke being a man is the most salient. Because, he is a man and still fallible, capable of fear and panic.
It doesn't make him less a hero.
ETA (as a follow up): Does the Doctor always do the right thing? He's 900 years old. Surely he would have learned by now. What about Yoda? Yoda screwed up big time with an entire Jedi Order. Surely he should have known better.
I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, but I just have to say that I find this post highly offensive.
For whatever it's worth, Ben killed Luke's other students, who hadn't so much as stood over him menacingly. That says something.
Now, let's be fair. I've never had someone I trusted draw a weapon on me, so I don't know how I would react. Now, would I be confused, trying to figure out what was going on? Maybe raise my arms up in a futile protective gesture? I could leap out of bed, and attempt to escape, and get my bearings later. Or, I could instantly try and kill the shit out of said trusted person (though, apparently not that trusted, since my first reaction to "Uncle Luke has drawn his lightsaber in my room in the dead of night" is "He is going to kill me," and not any one of at least three plausible innocuous explanations I can think of off the top of my head), burn down my home, murder all my friends, and run off to join a neo-facist death-cult. Truly, who can guess how they'll behave when the chips are down.
1. Weird Jedi Character Test/Ritual
1b. Luke isn't even really there, and it's some kind of vision that's part of a Weird Jedi Character Test/Ritual
2. The Academy is under attack, and Luke has come to rouse me to arms to defend my home
3. Luke noticed I was curious about certain matters, and wanted to sit down and rap with me about the facts of the living Force, and when he got to my room, some kind of space-animal was about to attack me. A diagona, or one of those giant spiders from the Bendu's planet on Rebels.
Come on, now, the Younglings were less suspicious when Anakin came to kill them, and they could see he just waltzed without any trouble from the attacking clones.
1b. Luke isn't even really there, and it's some kind of vision that's part of a Weird Jedi Character Test/Ritual
2. The Academy is under attack, and Luke has come to rouse me to arms to defend my home
3. Luke noticed I was curious about certain matters, and wanted to sit down and rap with me about the facts of the living Force, and when he got to my room, some kind of space-animal was about to attack me. A diagona, or one of those giant spiders from the Bendu's planet on Rebels.
Come on, now, the Younglings were less suspicious when Anakin came to kill them, and they could see he just waltzed without any trouble from the attacking clones.
I have.
I guess you’d describe my reaction as ‘wary.’ I didn’t know what was going through their heads, or what they were going to do.
A less charitable person might say that I froze. But here’s the thing: I didn’t want to run or attack them. Because I was worried they were going to hurt themselves.
There’s no threat from an old man in a chair, to a strong semi-experienced young man who’s been through nearly an entire trilogy of shit, survived three fights with Vader, and has already been tempted by the dark side.
Until the old man shoots a super laser at your friends, and shoves a lightening bolt up your ass.
Also re. ‘young boy.’ Even assuming Ben is younger than his actor, in the flashbacks he still would be around the age ANH Luke/Leia and AOTC Anakin. Excuse me if I’m unconvinced that makes him less of a threat.
Last edited:
Ok, he is a threat, that has yet to do anything wrong. But Vader was a threat to and one that had done a crap load of wrong. Luke made an effort to at least try and turn Vader back which was more than he did for Ben when he realized he had turned.
Vader's fall wasn't Luke's fault. He felt far more responsible for the fact that Snoke had already taken hold in Ben's mind. He basically was seeing the task that he was given fail right before his eyes and it was his fault.
Also, "something, something, Dark Side..."
And Anakin’s Master (like-a-brother) reacted to his darkness by amputating most of his limbs off, and leaving his helpless, limbless, ass to slowly burn alive.
Ben’s just had a brief moment of considering the ‘could I kill baby Hitler?’ dilemma, and decided ‘nah.’
Although considering how quick Ben’s friends joined up with the arsehole that just killed their friends and burned down their school, ‘nothing wrong yet’ might be overstating it. There was presumably a reason Luke was already suspecting Ben had turned, and that night he was just shocked by how far.
Besides, Luke’s initial reaction to finding out Vader was his father was a rejection. He did try to kill him, screamed hysterically for a bit, then jumped off a space station.
Last edited:
I feel like it actually fits with some of the Jedi teachings from the PT, and that despite his experience with the Dark Side, Luke still struggled with a fear of it.
