• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

USS Enterprise (eventually) on Discovery?

And with better acting and writing, too!
And there are some bits of TOS canon that really should go in the garbage bin, from, especially the treatment of women in the show. "No captains in starfleet" etc. The 1990's Eugenics wars likewise only work if you take TOS as very alternate reality from what we know about the rest of Trek (and they hardly even work with the Bell Riot/DS9). .
 
^ Remember what I just said. A visual reboot is strictly that - visual only. The actual events and continuity don't have to change at all. Every episode TOS ever made still takes place. Same characters, ships, dialogue, plots, all of it. It just looks a little different.

If you're asking, which one is real? Both are. And neither.
 
^ Remember what I just said. A visual reboot is strictly that - visual only. The actual events and continuity don't have to change at all. Every episode TOS ever made still takes place. Same characters, ships, dialogue, plots, all of it. It just looks a little different.

If you're asking, which one is real? Both are. And neither.
Except they have holographic technology which breaks the story of Star Trek Voyager and select episodes of Deep Space Nine, set over 100 years later.

So it's not purely a visual change.
 
Except they have holographic technology which breaks the story of Star Trek Voyager and select episodes of Deep Space Nine, set over 100 years later.

So it's not purely a visual change.

(Insert TAS reference here)

But honestly, it’s not exactly the same level of holodeck as TNG era, so it bends but doesn’t break. I never saw a Cardiassian until after the the Border War ended
 
Except they have holographic technology which breaks the story of Star Trek Voyager and select episodes of Deep Space Nine, set over 100 years later.

So it's not purely a visual change.
Though by that standpoint TNG broke TAS by reinventing the holodeck.
 
It only breaks the story if the writers say it does.

(Insert TAS reference here)

But honestly, it’s not exactly the same level of holodeck as TNG era, so it bends but doesn’t break. I never saw a Cardiassian until after the the Border War ended
I'm talking about the holographic Doctor being confined to sickbay in Voyager (until he gets his 29th century mobile emitter), when ALL the ships seen in Discovery have holographic emitters everywhere. I'm talking about "For the uniform" where holographic phonecalls are a new technology, not something done over a century ago with ease.

These break the story. It's not a visual upgrade, it's more.
 
ALL the ships seen in Discovery have holographic emitters everywhere.

What made you think that? DSC uses holograms strictly for communication. They can't walk around and actually physically manipulate the real world like the EMH (and other 24th-century holograms) can.

As for the holocommunicator on DS9: It is absolutely realistic. It literally looks exactly like the person is sitting there with you. There's none of the static or glitches that we see in DSC holograms. It's like AM vs. FM radio, vinyl vs. CD, VHS vs. Blu-Ray, etc. The holo-comm as used in DS9 is light-years ahead of anything in DSC.
 
I'm talking about the holographic Doctor being confined to sickbay in Voyager (until he gets his 29th century mobile emitter), when ALL the ships seen in Discovery have holographic emitters everywhere. I'm talking about "For the uniform" where holographic phonecalls are a new technology, not something done over a century ago with ease.

These break the story. It's not a visual upgrade, it's more.

Ahh, okay.
Well you take the Desperate Hours approach and buy into the holograms being inefficient for Power and then scrapped.
 
Here's how I now look at things. The visuals are merely a "lens" by which one looks at the events in Trek continuity. There is absolutely nothing to prevent the entirety of TOS, for example, from happening exactly as we originally saw it, except with the visual style we are now seeing in DSC.

Similarly, from the point of view of TOS, everything that we are now seeing in DSC still happened, just in the original series style. For example, the USS Discovery (when viewed through that lens) had TOS style uniforms, jellybean controls, etc. Yet the exact same events we're now seeing, still happened.

The visuals are independent of the actual continuity. It doesn't mean parallel universes or timelines. Just different ways of interpreting the same events.
With a few exceptions, that's how I like to think of it too. There are a few story elements that also are complete 60isms that would seem kind of silly if we tried to film them today (e.g. storylines revolving around the Love Interest of the Week) and there are some other things that TOS never really bothered to explain to anyone's satisfaction (wtf is the deal with Miri's planet? An exact duplicate of Earth hanging out in space with the same history right up until the mid 20th century... and nobody wonders how the hell that happened?).

But overall, continuity is the same; the change in set design doesn't change the actual story. Sort of like how "Wicked" is still in the same continuity as "The Wizard of Oz" no matter what version of it you happen to be watching (Judy Garland, version, Broadway version, etc). And then there's "The Wiz" which is basically the Kelvinverse version...
 
What made you think that? DSC uses holograms strictly for communication. They can't walk around and actually physically manipulate the real world like the EMH (and other 24th-century holograms) can.

As for the holocommunicator on DS9: It is absolutely realistic. It literally looks exactly like the person is sitting there with you. There's none of the static or glitches that we see in DSC holograms. It's like AM vs. FM radio, vinyl vs. CD, VHS vs. Blu-Ray, etc. The holo-comm as used in DS9 is light-years ahead of anything in DSC.
We know Discovery holograms can look perfect, we see it when they use them as mirrors.

And remember the holodoc is AI and what we see is just a projection. Even if he couldn't interact with the world, the EMH would have jumped at the opportunity to walk around outside sickbay. And even if DSC doesn't have the AI to pull off the Holodoc, they have the tech to project him anywhere on the ship - an ability which will mysteriously lost by the time Voyager is launched.
 
there are some other things that TOS never really bothered to explain to anyone's satisfaction (wtf is the deal with Miri's planet? An exact duplicate of Earth hanging out in space with the same history right up until the mid 20th century... and nobody wonders how the hell that happened?).

I rather like the explanation propounded by @Christopher in his DTI novels:

Miri's world wasn't just a copy of Earth. It literally WAS Earth - from an alternate timeline. There were instabilities in space-time that caused the two timelines to 'mix' for awhile.
 
And even if DSC doesn't have the AI to pull off the Holodoc, they have the tech to project him anywhere on the ship - an ability which will mysteriously lost by the time Voyager is launched.

It might have been deemed too energy intensive or something, and the tech was scrapped until it could be improved.
 
Except they have holographic technology which breaks the story of Star Trek Voyager and select episodes of Deep Space Nine, set over 100 years later.

So it's not purely a visual change.
Doesn't break the story at all, just some of the implications of it. To wit, none of the new holographic gadgets in Voyager or DS9 were new technology, they were just new inventions using old technology.

Put this another way: We have apple watches in the 21st century. We have iphones in the 21st century. But we don't have little watch-sized devices that fold out into full-sized ipads when you put them down on a table somewhere and then fold back into something you can wear on your wrist. That invention is a little bit beyond our capabilities right now, not because we don't have computers, keyboards, or collapsible electronics, but because some of the things that would make that work haven't been invented or perfected yet.
 
We know Discovery holograms can look perfect, we see it when they use them as mirrors.

And remember the holodoc is AI and what we see is just a projection. Even if he couldn't interact with the world, the EMH would have jumped at the opportunity to walk around outside sickbay. And even if DSC doesn't have the AI to pull off the Holodoc, they have the tech to project him anywhere on the ship - an ability which will mysteriously lost by the time Voyager is launched.


Eh its a retcon. The real reason was they could not IRL afford to do holograms, so they did not have them on the ship. Really, in VOY it retcons what maybe 3 episodes where it was a real issue? Mostly it was a story element and that could be hand waved as saying his matrix was not compatible with low yield holo emitters or some other technobabbal.

Trek does retcons all the time, Like ya know VOY being in 1996 and Zero Eugenics wars going on and all that.
 
We know Discovery holograms can look perfect, we see it when they use them as mirrors.
It's easy to make a hologram LOOK perfect. But a hologram with physical texture that can interact with objects with enough precision to perform surgery on a living being is a whole different beast. It's basically the difference between a windup toy and a roomba.

And remember the holodoc is AI and what we see is just a projection.
SOME of what we see is projection. The rest of it is solid material patterned by something like a transporter system look and feel real. The forcefields the holograms are projected against are modulated to just the right size and shape to match the objects they're supposed to be so you can interact with them as if they were the real thing; 23rd century forcefields can be projected as flat surfaces or basic shapes against which three dimensional images can be projected, but they can't make touchable/kissable human analogs yet (or maybe they can, but not with the kind of equipment that would fit into a starship).

Even if he couldn't interact with the world, the EMH would have jumped at the opportunity to walk around outside sickbay.
Evidently not, since projecting a simple hologram outside of sickbay would have been trivially easy for even the crew of Voyager to achieve. Simple holograms probably wouldn't work for the doctors program, though, since not being able to touch or interact with anything possibly means he wouldn't be able to SEE anything either (that's just the way his program works; the computer isn't feeding inputs to his program from the ship's internal sensors, it's reading the inputs from the part of his projection that makes up his "eyes." The mobile emitter does the same thing. This is apparently so the doctor can operate on patients with precision and not have to rely on sensor inputs from the other side of the room).

And even if DSC doesn't have the AI to pull off the Holodoc, they have the tech to project him anywhere on the ship - an ability which will mysteriously lost by the time Voyager is launched.
They have the ability to project an IMAGE anywhere on the ship. But if the Doctor was just an image, NOTHING about his character would make sense.

Put it more simply: The Doctor is not actually an AI in the normal sense of the word. The Doctor is a simulated person, essentially a modified holodeck character modeled after one or more real physicians in Starfleet. His program and memories can't be copied or transferred and is remarkably hardware-specific in that it can't be saved to more than one location at once without corrupting the entire program. A simple medical AI or expert system is something WE can already do right here in the 21st century, and projecting an avatar of it on the wall or on a TV screen isn't far off either. But the Doctor is something very VERY different.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top