Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

[XCV330]

I'm not in Canada and I don't currently have Netflix subscription.

So theft then.

 

[Tuskin38]

The earth spinned like in the Mirror Enterprise opening too.

 

[GhostLoveScore]

So...let me make sure I understand this correctly? Your goal is to watch a show that you don't like, so you can get angry about it and be disappointed by it...for the sole purpose of being well-informed so that you can go online, bitch about it, and get into arguments with a group of people who overwhelmingly disagree with you?

There isn't a single element of what I just wrote that sounds like an enjoyable experience.

So, yeah...it's odd bruh.

That's exactly what I do.

Yes, it was one of my favorite Treks I have seen. Different styles and approaches resonate differently with different people.

ok. I'm glad you like it.

So theft then.

What if I watch it with a friend? At friend's house with his account?

 

[Rahul]

Well Netflix is always there for you. I'm sure The Orville will do an episode like that sooner or later, but it will be funny. Those concepts really only work as comedy now.

'Space Amoeba' is not more unrealistic a concept than 'space whale'. And we had one of those already on DIS. So don't tell me how "realistic" DIS is and how "outdated" classic sci-fi ideas are.

The thing is: We have had one(!) episode with space amoeba in Trek. But we have more "klingon war" episodes than anyone of us can count. If DIS so desperately needs to rehash old ideas, why not ones that we haven't had already repeated ad nauseum?

 

[137th Gebirg]

So...let me make sure I understand this correctly? Your goal is to watch a show that you don't like, so you can get angry about it and be disappointed by it...for the sole purpose of being well-informed so that you can go online, bitch about it, and get into arguments with a group of people who overwhelmingly disagree with you?

There isn't a single element of what I just wrote that sounds like an enjoyable experience.

So, yeah...it's odd bruh.

And pay for it, too, no less?

 

[Awesome Possum]

'Space Amoeba' is not more unrealistic a concept than 'space whale'. And we had one of those already on DIS. So don't tell me how "realistic" DIS is and how "outdated" classic sci-fi ideas are.

The thing is: We have had one(!) episode with space amoeba in Trek. But we have more "klingon war" episodes than anyone of us can count. If DIS so desperately needs to rehash old ideas, why not ones that we haven't had already repeated ad nauseum?

It's called a story arc, something common on modern television. The days of one-off stories is basically dead, audiences want more now. Now we get an ongoing story where characters go and develop. They don't learn lessons that they forget next week anymore.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

A ship other than the Discovery crossed to that Parallel Reality they're in. And they're going to investigate this ship in order to understand how she got there. How is that a difficult concept to follow ? You don't really need to view ENT or TOS to comprehend that.

Agreed. This attitude that Star Trek is this incomprehensible tome of multilayered history and esoteric concepts that is completely inaccessible to a random audience is a bit silly. It also makes for a weak criticism. Hell, my first "Mirror Universe" episode was from Darkwing Duck when DW gets pulled into the "Negaverse". It is heavily implied that Negaduck is from this universe and is the Negaverse double of DW.

This was very easy to understand at the age of like, 8. I saw Mirror, Mirror years later. I watched In A Mirror, Darkly for the first time probably 5 years ago, having never seen The Tholian Web where I said, "Oh its a ship from TOS, probably some backstory to that...maybe its from a specific episode...but it doesn't seem to be important..."

Okay, I didn't say that exactly, but I do remember not being completely derailed and confused as to what was going on.

 

[Rahul]

A ship other than the Discovery crossed to that Parallel Reality they're in. And they're going to investigate this ship in order to understand how she got there. How is that a difficult concept to follow ? You don't really need to view ENT or TOS to comprehend that.

Imagine you're watching Fringe. Olivia and Walter cross over to the Red Universe, Walter does a bit of research and concludes: "Ha! There's another traveler from our reality here! Let's go see him". Easy peasy.

How DSC's Mirror Universe is a jargon ? The Human Civilization succumbs to Fascism and when it goes out to explore space, they start enslaving and oppressing every Alien they see. It's not really a Star Trek niche thing. Any new viewer could easily get what the writers were trying to say. I mean, Humans spent most of its history doing what the Terran Empire does. It's not something only Trekkies can understand.

You clearly haven't talked to a lot of people who are not very familiar with Trek, right? "Trek jargon" already starts with "beaming", "set phasers to stun", "10 seconds until warp core breach" and "matter-anti-matter-reactor". That shit is already not that easy to get into the very first time you see it.

I wouldn't want to watch something that treats me like an idiot just because I'm not overly versed in the minutea of everything that came before it. THAT'S why so many people have problems with "canon". Imagine I see Olivia and Walter in the Red Universe. And, as a viewer who has seen every episode that came before, I think "Oh, gee, what a nice concept. I can't wait until they explain what this 'Red Universe' is". And then somebody comes at my: "Oh no, you're just a noob, the Red Universe was already explained in that episode from 'Lost' 10 years ago. That's also where Walter really comes from. Didn't you watch that?"

Yeah, that would be a jumping-off point for me...

 

[Vger23]

That's exactly what I do.

That's great!

• Spend an hour watching a show you hate? (crappy experience)
• Getting angry or disappointed about a show you hate? (crappy experience)
• Being well-versed to in something that you hate? (odd...but probably neutral experience...but certainly a massive waste of personal time and resources)
• Going on line to express discontent and argue with a bunch of people you disagree? (crappy experience)

Everyone has their idea of a good time I guess! I'm glad you found a pastime that seems to fill your needs!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go buy a bunch of stock in anti-depressants...

 

[Rahul]

It's called a story arc, something common on modern television. The days of one-off stories is basically dead, audiences want more now. Now we get an ongoing story where characters go and develop. They don't learn lessons that they forget next week anymore.

Don't tell me you can't make an interesting story arc out of 'giant space amoeba(s)'!

 

[GhostLoveScore]

That's great!

• Spend an hour watching a show you hate? (crappy experience)
• Getting angry or disappointed about a show you hate? (crappy experience)
• Being well-versed to in something that you hate? (odd...but probably neutral experience...but certainly a massive waste of personal time and resources)
• Going on line to express discontent and argue with a bunch of people you disagree? (crappy experience)

What can I say, I am miserable angry person.

 

[XCV330]

Just because Kirk and crew didn't know about it doesn't mean Starfleet didn't know about it. Starfleet was researching the Borg before the Enterprise encountered them and were at least somewhat aware of them for centuries.

I like that idea. There was some math done last year after finding planets in Earth habitable zone now that some have been found might equal out to about 11 billion inhabitable worlds. If you put red dwarf systems into the calculation that goes up to 40 billion possible inhabited worlds. And doesn't take into account other habitable zones like Jovian moon systems, non-carbon life, etc. And life got started on Earth so early after planet formation its almost hard to imagine it's not a common process.

Add to that in Trek where there's some ancient entity seeding the universe with humanoids, that's a lot of species and weird shit to keep track of, including all the no-name facial ridge one-shot civilizations that never amount to much. I could imagine they wouldn't even bother telling every captain intel on possible alternate universes or vague rumors evil robotic aliens way out there.

What if I watch it with a friend? At friend's house with his account?

Hello friend I have been friends with that I did not just make up. I would like to come to your domicile to watch a show with you that I vehemently do not like so that I can tell people on the internet how much I do not like it. Thank you friend, you are a real friend, much like that real actor Javid Iqbal. True blue.

 

[ItIsGreen]

Just finished watching. Best episode yet. Haven't read all 35(!) pages of this thread yet but fucking wow. The series started off a little shaky for me but has steadily improved from one episode to the next and is light years ahead of where it started out. So many things to love in this episode.

Spoiler: All Hail

Captain Killy

The Defiant - Here's what a Constitution class Starship looks like - at least the outline.

View attachment 3658

Not a massive fan of this take on the Connie - weird cutouts on the saucer and those little greeblies on the nacelle pylons, but I'll give it a pass when everything else is just bloody gorgeous.

 

[GhostLoveScore]

Hello friend I have been friends with that I did not just make up. I would like to come to your domicile to watch a show with you that I vehemently do not like so that I can tell people on the internet how much I do not like it. Thank you friend, you are a real friend, much like that real actor Javid Iqbal. True blue.

Why are you so angry when somebody doesn't like the show?

 

[Vger23]

What can I say, I am miserable angry person.

Haha...! Peace!

No joke (I mean this sincerely)...but maybe try NOT doing this to yourself. You might find yourself much happier just letting it slide. There's enough $#!+ in the world to get pissed about and/or to spend energy on. Maybe you'd be happier avoiding stuff you can't stand...and even more happy not getting into it with a bunch of people you know you're only going to draw ire from.

I dunno...works for me. Everyone's different.

 

[Refuge]

What can I say, I am miserable angry person.

You are supposed to apologise for having the audacity to be in charge of your own TV viewing habits and especially for not kissing the TV every time Discovery comes on

 

[Noname Given]

The old Mirror universe costumes for women and men were absurd, a product of the 1960s. It makes more sense for a fascist military based on backstabbing each other would wear something that looks like an uniform with armor on it. We really need to get over these obsessions with artistic decisions made 50 years ago. They just don't work anymore.

IMO - they work just fine (and if they somehow go 'forward' to 2267 in the MU on any future episode, I would expect those particular uniforms.) THAT SAID - One shouldn't decry something in a different era (IE 10 years earlier) just because it's different.

 

[barryseymour]

Okay, this was a WONDERFUL return to the series after the holiday break.

High points for me: (trying not to be spoilery...)

• More personal moments. Bernham and Tyler talking over dinner, talking after they're in the bedroom... Tilly agonizing over having to be a tyrannical captain... Burnham's look of horror and regret after, er, "interacting" with her 'replacement' captain in the turbolift on the Shenzou. Frakes did a great job bringing out the emotional moments of this story.
  
  
• Funny: When Lorca takes over the conn to explain their engineering difficulties. Who better? LOL
• Fascinating: We finally got a brief look (albeit wireframe) at a famous class of starship. Intriguiing!

I was thoroughly pleased!

 

[Awesome Possum]

Don't tell me you can't make an interesting story arc out of 'giant space amoeba(s)'!

Amoebas don't have much motivation other than eating. I'm not sure how much drama you can squeeze out of them, other than debating whether they should kill it or not.

I like that idea. There was some math done last year after finding planets in Earth habitable zone now that some have been found might equal out to about 11 billion inhabitable worlds. If you put red dwarf systems into the calculation that goes up to 40 billion possible inhabited worlds. And doesn't take into account other habitable zones like Jovian moon systems, non-carbon life, etc. And life got started on Earth so early after planet formation its almost hard to imagine it's not a common process.

Add to that in Trek where there's some ancient entity seeding the universe with humanoids, that's a lot of species and weird shit to keep track of, including all the no-name facial ridge one-shot civilizations that never amount to much. I could imagine they wouldn't even bother telling every captain intel on possible alternate universes or vague rumors evil robotic aliens way out there.

Some of it is probably classified for one reason or another. With the Borg, they at least knew about Cochrane's stories, those cyborg aliens the NX-01 encountered, the reports from the El Aurian survivors and probably a few isolated incidents we never heard about. The galaxy is a big place, Starfleet probably knows about a ton of stuff that doesn't come up.

 

[SimonTC]

The Human Civilization succumbs to Fascism and when it goes out to explore space, they start enslaving and oppressing every Alien they see. It's not really a Star Trek niche thing. Any new viewer could easily get what the writers were trying to say. I mean, Humans spent most of its history doing what the Terran Empire does. It's not something only Trekkies can understand.

I'm thinking succumbs to Communism - the Soviet Union won the Cold War in this universe.
The Soviet Union was xenophobic, treated its citizens from other SSRs as second class citizens, used slave labor, and committed genocide. I'm 1/4 Ukrainian and see the parallels.