Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[Smellmet]

Like science, business doesn't really care what you do or do not believe. The fact is that the last jedi is seen as a shockingly massive flop, so whatever Disney planned to use from Rian Johnsons vision will now be scrapped. It's pretty much a certainty.

Oh please. Financially this is not going to be a 'shockingly massive flop'

It might not meet expectations but shockingly massive flop? Get real.

 

[Booji]

Just got back from a second viewing, and I liked it more than the first time I saw it. Which I find really weird since I sorta wasn't looking forward to a rewatch. I still think the beginning and middle dragged a little, but the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff is so good I didn't mind. I'm much more confident in my original B+ score now.

 

[crookeddy]

Oh please. Financially this is not going to be a 'shockingly massive flop'

It might not meet expectations but shockingly massive flop? Get real.

Disney is a publicly traded company, so meeting expectations is far more important than profits. By that measure, last jedi is absolutely a shocking flop. Heads will fly and careers will end.

 

[Smellmet]

Disney is a publicly traded company, so meeting expectations is far more important than profits. By that measure, last jedi is absolutely a shocking flop. Heads will fly and careers will end.

A shockingly bad flop would be under a billion, which, whilst still a big box office take, would still probably represent a tidy profit for Disney. It's going to clear R1's totals easily, and may still do over 700 million domestic.

Your language is pure hyperbole.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Disney is a publicly traded company, so meeting expectations is far more important than profits. By that measure, last jedi is absolutely a shocking flop. Heads will fly and careers will end.

This is the same company that has put out some of the biggest money-losers in box office history, in just the last decade:

Mars Needs Moms (Budget $150m, box office $39m)
John Carter (which did cost studio chief Rich Ross his job. Budget = $263m, box office $280m)
The Lone Ranger (Budget $250m, box office $260m)
Tomorrowland (Budget $190m, box office $209m)
Pixar's The Good Dinosaur (Budget $200m, box office $332m)
Alice Through the Looking Glass (Budget $170m, box office $299m)

Note the box office figures are combined worldwide takes - in the US box office alone, each one of those bombed and bombed hard.

Compared to that, The Last Jedi (Budget=$200m, box office $745m and still counting) is in disgustingly robust health. The LFL/Disney studio execs are crying all the way to the bank. If you want to put it all on Rian - well, he ain't doing IX anyway.

 

[starsuperion]

IDK, for me at least, Disney Star Wars isn't or will ever be canon to me. Neither will Star Trek Discovery. Hollywood is brain dead. Their scripts are all thinly veiled PSAs and social justice commentary and pandering, that's not entertainment, it's indoctrination under the guise of artistic license and expression. I choose to vote with my wallet. I won't have in my collection of either properties, TFA, Rogue 1, TLJ, or anything with STD. I'm quite happy about that. I don't need their propaganda, or crappy rehashed writing. I'll stick to books, graphic novels, or comics for the stories I like and want to read. But since SJW MARVEL comics, I plan to watch reviews and read reviews before I buy anything anymore. Title and franchise alone won't be enough to earn my paycheck and disposable income. Disney has at least done one good thing by all their shennanigans in comics and their movies, it's made me more frugal,and cautious, which is a good thing. Now I can spend my money on stuff I really want. Like Masterpiece Transformers, and third party Transformers, Hot Toys figures, and the Orville Merchandise when ever it finally hits stores.

Thanks Kathleen Kennedy, Jar Jar Abrams, Rian Johnson, and Disney. I'm much happier writing off this stuff. Been a long time coming, but now I have the perfect excuse to cut out Star Wars and Star Trek from my collection, except of course the classic stuff. Ever wonder why Vader merchandise is always sold out, better then Kylo Ren...cause the OT works, the new stuff sucks. There, I said it.

Now, bring on that Unique Toys The Last Knight masterpiece Optimus prime! I got a shelf so ready for ya!

 

[crookeddy]

This is the same company that has put out some of the biggest money-losers in box office history, in just the last decade:

Mars Needs Moms (Budget $150m, box office $39m)
John Carter (which did cost studio chief Rich Ross his job. Budget = $263m, box office $280m)
The Lone Ranger (Budget $250m, box office $260m)
Tomorrowland (Budget $190m, box office $209m)
Pixar's The Good Dinosaur (Budget $200m, box office $332m)
Alice Through the Looking Glass (Budget $170m, box office $299m)

Note the box office figures are combined worldwide takes - in the US box office alone, each one of those bombed and bombed hard.

Compared to that, The Last Jedi (Budget=$200m, box office $745m and still counting) is in disgustingly robust health. The LFL/Disney studio execs are crying all the way to the bank. If you want to put it all on Rian - well, he ain't doing IX anyway.

So... How many of those will get sequels?

 

[DigificWriter]

IDK, for me at least, Disney Star Wars isn't or will ever be canon to me.

That's not how it works.

I won't have in my collection of either properties, TFA, Rogue 1, or TLJ.

That's your choice, but it means nothing.

 

[Smellmet]

I didn't care for TLJ on the one viewing I've had. I'll still be purchasing the blu ray without question. I still need to see it more and I've neither the time, funds or inclination to view it a dozen times at the theatre.

 

[EnderAKH]

Like science, business doesn't really care what you do or do not believe. The fact is that the last jedi is seen as a shockingly massive flop, so whatever Disney planned to use from Rian Johnsons vision will now be scrapped. It's pretty much a certainty.

This is not accurate AT ALL. In 9 days of release, it has made 3 quarters of a billion dollars. Having been released 3 weeks before the end of the year, it is already the 4th highest grossing movie for the year and could very well reach #3 before the year is out. It is the #1 movie for the second week in a row. It had the second highest opening OF ALL TIME and was one of only four movies in history to have an opening over $200 million. It will easily clear a billion dollars. There are only 2 ways this movie could be considered a disappointment:. #1 comparing it to the box office take of The Force Awakens which was the first star wars movie in over a decade and the first one not under the auspices of George Lucas, and #2 by frustrated Star Wars fans looking for a reason to consider it a failure.

 

[starsuperion]

That's not how it works.

Sure it is. The studio can call out what's canonical and what's Not. You as a fan can choose whatever path you want to follow for the property. I Like some EU canon, even if that was intentionally removed by Disney from the SW mythos. But even before that, I picked and chose things I desired to acknowledge happened, and didn't buy those other things I didn't like. Its the essence of free thought and consumerism. Perfectly allowed in any fandom. I just choose to ignore Disney Star Wars and their Marvel comics. I like however the MCU.



[QUOTE="DigificWriter] Thats your choice, but it means nothing.[/QUOTE]

Sure it means something..it means one less customer buying into their movies or merchandise. Which leads to one less parent encouraging and buying their stuff for their kids. One less customer recommending the movie or sharing a fandom moment with friends, and thereby affecting their own purchases as well. So it makes a difference. Small, but who cares. I'm not trying to get the series or franchise cancelled. I'm just not participating in the funding of it anymore.

 

[theenglish]

I tend to think of it more analogous to the reflective material you find on traffic cones, high-vis saftly vests and the like. In that the brighter the light that shines on it, the brighter it shines right back, but focused and magnified.

So it's basically resonating off of Rey's own presence in the force, which is possibly why her vision was as much a reflection of herself as it was a reflection of Luke. It's also probably no coincidence that this resonance first starts to manifest as a memory of herself as a child crying out as her parents abandon her, right after Finn basically does the same thing. It's echoing off her own inner turmoil and her most prominent emotions are being reflected back and amplified.

But there was only a limited amount of imagery associated with the OT in this scene. Thinking back I don't think I thought anything about this scene while watching the movie other than it showed Rey's sensitivity to the force. It was only later after reading theories online that I thought it was something more.

Regarding the movie itself---I haven't seen it pointed out that Luke's initial reaction of throwing the lightsaber away as if it means nothing to him any longer contradicts the end scene of the movie. If his father's lightsaber didn't mean anything then why didn't he force project his own green saber during the final battle?

 

[theenglish]

This is the same company that has put out some of the biggest money-losers in box office history, in just the last decade:

Mars Needs Moms (Budget $150m, box office $39m)
John Carter (which did cost studio chief Rich Ross his job. Budget = $263m, box office $280m)
The Lone Ranger (Budget $250m, box office $260m)
Tomorrowland (Budget $190m, box office $209m)
Pixar's The Good Dinosaur (Budget $200m, box office $332m)
Alice Through the Looking Glass (Budget $170m, box office $299m)

And half of those are actually well made enjoyable films.

 

[David cgc]

Regarding the movie itself---I haven't seen it pointed out that Luke's initial reaction of throwing the lightsaber away as if it means nothing to him any longer contradicts the end scene of the movie. If his father's lightsaber didn't mean anything then why didn't he force project his own green saber during the final battle?

There are many possible reasons. Luke himself looked different in his projection; more groomed, and with less gray in his hair. He might've been appearing as people remembered him. Kylo might've seen Anakin's lightsaber because that's where his thoughts were. Or, Luke may not have wanted to use ol' greenie, because of the last time he drew it (either in general, since he wasn't carrying it, or specifically when dealing with Ben).

 

[starsuperion]

This is the same company that has put out some of the biggest money-losers in box office history, in just the last decade:

Mars Needs Moms (Budget $150m, box office $39m)
John Carter (which did cost studio chief Rich Ross his job. Budget = $263m, box office $280m)
The Lone Ranger (Budget $250m, box office $260m)
Tomorrowland (Budget $190m, box office $209m)
Pixar's The Good Dinosaur (Budget $200m, box office $332m)
Alice Through the Looking Glass (Budget $170m, box office $299m)

Note the box office figures are combined worldwide takes - in the US box office alone, each one of those bombed and bombed hard.

Compared to that, The Last Jedi (Budget=$200m, box office $745m and still counting) is in disgustingly robust health. The LFL/Disney studio execs are crying all the way to the bank. If you want to put it all on Rian - well, he ain't doing IX anyway.

Hmmm....
After eight days, the eighth chapter in the iconic franchise has grossed an impressive $321 million, but that is $120 million behind The Force Awakens, and even trails Jurassic World by $4 million.

The Last Jedi looks to be on pace to squeak over $600 million domestic, some $300-plus million behind its predecessor. Moreover, when you adjust for inflation, chapter eight will fall way behind the much derided prequel, The Phantom Menace ($807 million), and way behind The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi ($877 million and $840 million, respectively).

 

[marillion]

Oh my goodness... “squeak” over 600 million... yep... total flop.

This is a maasive hit across the globe... A globe that has enjoyed constant NEW canon Star Wars for the past several years. Yes, the movies are the big pull, and will continue to be.... But to compare TLJ with TPM is laughable... Same with TFA.... We’ve had SO much Star Wars since The Clone Wars ended that of course there’s a lack of newness...

This bodes well for the next film and the fact that Mark Hamill thinks the haters are wankers is a good sign. Love his twitter feed.

 

[Campe]

Hmmm....
After eight days, the eighth chapter in the iconic franchise has grossed an impressive $321 million, but that is $120 million behind The Force Awakens, and even trails Jurassic World by $4 million.

The Last Jedi looks to be on pace to squeak over $600 million domestic, some $300-plus million behind its predecessor. Moreover, when you adjust for inflation, chapter eight will fall way behind the much derided prequel, The Phantom Menace ($807 million), and way behind The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi ($877 million and $840 million, respectively).

And your point is?

First, there is the law of diminishing returns. Meaning each successive entry SHOULD make less than the one before. I will be the first to admit that I think a Star Wars film a year is a BAD idea. It makes something that was once special far more commonplace.

Still, second, you obviously aren’t interested in Disney Star Wars, which is totally cool. But most people I know don’t continue to attack something they don’t like. They choose to find other ways to expel their energies. You seem to be invested in spinning its failure no matter what. There are things in every fandom I have interest in that I don’t like, but I do my best to say my peace and let it go. I just don’t understand the necessity not to live and let live.

 

[Ithekro]

One thing you can count on, is that Mark Hamill, while not that big of a Star Wars fan himself, is a fanboy for other things and does understand how the fanbase works.

 

[Reverend]

Regarding the movie itself---I haven't seen it pointed out that Luke's initial reaction of throwing the lightsaber away as if it means nothing to him any longer contradicts the end scene of the movie. If his father's lightsaber didn't mean anything then why didn't he force project his own green saber during the final battle?

Those scenes take place at opposite ends of the movie. You may as well ask why Han shot Vader's wingman over the Death Star after he repeatedly stated he's just in it for the money. It's called a character arc.

As for the sabre itself, Luke's reaction isn't about what it is so much as what it represents. The thing he's running away from, the thing he's rejecting. Also note he doesn't instantly chuck it over his shoulder. From seeing it in the final scene of TFA to the other half of that same scene on TLJ he face goes though a whole spectrum of emotions from "What the hell do you want?", to "Where the hell did you find that!" and finally "You know what, bugger it all, I don't care. Peace out!"

There are many possible reasons. Luke himself looked different in his projection; more groomed, and with less gray in his hair. He might've been appearing as people remembered him. Kylo might've seen Anakin's lightsaber because that's where his thoughts were. Or, Luke may not have wanted to use ol' greenie, because of the last time he drew it (either in general, since he wasn't carrying it, or specifically when dealing with Ben).

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that whatever was going on there it wasn't just a mind trick but a physical (if insubstantial) projection. For one thing Threepio saw him, as did Poe's macrobinoculars and the walkers' targeting scopes. Machines don't have minds to trick in that way. Indeed, the way the image reacted to Kylo's blade indicates there was *something* there.

Obviously the real reason he had the blue sabre is more symbolic than anything, but if one must find a practical justification for why Kylo don't spot the inconsistency (beyond having other thing on his mind): from a distance, anyone would have a job recognising a specific sabre hilt. Indeed we've seen several that have damn near identical designs.

 

[Hound of UIster]

In the case of TFA and TLJ, the "mystery" of Rey's parents is pretty much an invention of the fans reading into what was never there in the first place.

Absolutely not. It was fans reading into the leftover bits from previous iterations of the script of TFA that had her marked as a Solo-Skywalker kid before it was changed by Abrams. Blame Kasdan and obviously Abrams for not doing a good enough job of cleaning up the script and leaving parts from the previous story laying around.