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Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie.


  • Total voters
    290
I thought Yoda looked the best he has since ROTJ. It almost seemed like the original muppet, or at least that was used as a base for a really good CGI.

The Puppet or whatever it was in TLJ looked bad, really bad. the CG in the PT was more accurate to ESB and ROTJ then that.


I saw a great explanation of Kylo Ren. Not sure of the original source it was quoted by someone else who didn't give it.

I think this is a gross mischaracterization of Kylo Ren. He doesn't throw tantrums over minor shit. For all of TLJ's flaws, it ended up making Kylo the most interesting, nuanced character in the entire series.

He lacks validation. Completely. So when he fails to earn validation or someone doesn't validate him, he acts rashly. Look at it this way:

His parents don't think they can help him, so they send him to Luke Skywalker, his hero uncle, for training. This is abandonment #1. Luke Skywalker trains him and ultimately finds him to be too full of darkness to the point where Luke feels his only recourse is to literally murder him. Luke felt like he had to do this regardless of what Han and Leia felt, what the galaxy would think about the hero Jedi Master killing his own nephew, etc. It turns out to be a misunderstanding, but that kind of thing mixed with the dark side surely made Kylo act incredibly rashly, which he did.

So he gets to Snoke, and Snoke goes, "You don't need to live up to the legacy of your mother, father and uncle. They're not the real heroes. The real hero was Darth Vader, and you can be just like him." Here's where he starts to earn validation. Not only that, but Darth Vader is a figure that it's impossible for Kylo to disappoint. Snoke remains the gatekeeper to this validation, though, and it is possible to disappoint him.

Finally, you get Snoke so fed up with Kylo he goes "You're a big bitch and you'll never be like Vader take that helmet off you fucking piece of shit." and finally, Kylo has literally nobody helping him. He's by himself. He goes to Rey for this validation and she starts to provide it. He decides to kill Snoke because now he has Rey and she believes in him, and he thinks if he can just get them through this and explain his point of view to her, she'll stick with him.

etc etc and so on, you guys saw the movie. I really like him.
 
Frank Oz can't do the voice? He is the voice, so whatever he does, is the voice. In the credits I saw some asst. puppetteers or some such, so I assumed it was a real puppet with some CGI help. Anyone know?
 
Frank Oz can't do the voice? He is the voice, so whatever he does, is the voice. In the credits I saw some asst. puppetteers or some such, so I assumed it was a real puppet with some CGI help. Anyone know?

He doesn't sound like OT Yoda anymore, that is what I mean by he can't do the voice.

Snoke was combination of puppetry and CG, so I assume Yoda was as well.
 
If I had to describe this movie with one word, it would be "unexpected." It's hard for me to think of a single moment in this story that went the way I expected it to. But, even though I'm sure I didn't want this direction, I loved it when it was happening.
 
SW was conceptualized at a time when the words galaxy and universe were sometimes used interchangeably. It might as well be another universe. Alternatively, it may be characteristic of that galaxy, which is held together by the Force. Or it's subject to weird stellar phenomenon.

Thing is, it's also a galaxy where the characters can see a star system destroyed by a giant blaster bolt in real-time. It's a fairy tale, that starts almost every movie with "Once upon a time."
So what your saying is debating the merits pro or con on the science involved in star wars is pointless, thereby why find anything at all believable about it..I agree. Including the characters. Many I find in this Disney world as 1 dimensional and flat. Charicatures of actual characters, and their stories and motivations as contrived and silly as the space science that goes along with it.
 
Saw it. Loved it. A+. I could go on and on about what I loved, then some will agree and others will write 50 pages of essays about me being wrong in my opinion. Don't feel like that. So yeah, I loved it, and that's all I care about. :)
 
Wow. I can't even begin to discuss my disgust over the fate of Luke Skywalker.

Wow. In the original trilogy, this guy was a beacon of hope, so incorruptible, that he managed to take a guy who murdered a bunch of kids--and turn him to the light side of the Force. All this, while saving billions of lives by destroying the first Death Star, and being a major reason the Emperor--the most powerful Sith WE saw, died.

Luke is the greatest hero in a galaxy of heroes.

We leave him in ROTJ with more hope than ever. He won! The galaxy was saved.

His future looked bright. This guy loved the Jedi and what they stood for.

So he takes on a few students and his nephew turns? Even with that lousy turn of events, Luke's response is to lose all faith in everything and run away from the universe?

And when his sister sends an emissary to come back--one with great Force power, he acts like a grumpy old man?

But at least we got to see him milk an animal!

Meanwhile, after all these years, his final fight wasn't even a real fight? He was a hologram and died!

He didn't do anything until the very end, but it could have all been saved had he not just DIED.

WTF? The ruse was brilliant. But now he's gone.

So the man who saved galaxy--who was the hero of the trilogy that started it all, who was revered, basically suffers for 30 years and dies for no reason.

Even if Hamill comes back in the next one, Luke's life after Jedi was a complete and utter waste.

I read that Hamill questioned the direction of Luke and didn't like what he became. Ya think?

And that's just Luke.

Kylo is still the lamest Star Wars villain ever. I don't hate him--he's just annoying. What the hell was the point of Snoke if he died that easily. Even Maul had a better ending than that.

Both Snoke and Captain Phasma have no real purpose thanks to this movie.

The movie didn't have all negatives. I thought Poe and Rose and Finn were great. As for Rey--great job with the parents thing. Why have a mystery if it's just going to be, "your parents were jerks."

That's if Kylo was telling the truth, though no real motivation to lie in that scene.

First Han dies, now Luke. With Fisher dead in real life, they might as well call the next one Star Wars Episode IX: Leia Dies.
 
But at least we got to see him milk an animal!

Hey, it was blue milk!

Meanwhile, after all these years, his final fight wasn't even a real fight? He was a hologram and died!

No, you completely miss the point. Luke showed Kylo Ren exactly how powerful he was by not just planting himself in Ren's head, but simultaneously in the heads of EVERYONE present. Oh, and he also saved the galaxy again.
 
Wow. I can't even begin to discuss my disgust over the fate of Luke Skywalker.

Wow. In the original trilogy, ....

... the hero of the trilogy that started it all, ...

First Han dies, now Luke. With Fisher dead in real life, they might as well call the next one Star Wars Episode IX: Leia Dies.

I've edited the quote down to the relevant bits. And I know I'm going to take flak for this comment, but you know what? I don't care...

My favorite bit of meta dialogue in Last Jedi, apart from what I liked or didn't like, came from Kylo Ren. "Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. It's the only way to become what you were meant to be."

He's talking about Star Wars. So long as Star Wars is seen by people as being just Luke, Han and Leia, it can never be allowed to be anything else. If they're going to do anything new with this sequel trilogy, they have to get past those three. So let them die. Kill them if you have to. It's the only way we'll ever get anything new and different.
 
Here's a problem I had with the film: when Kylo Ren and Rey are battling the red "imperial guards", how is it that neither one of them -- paricularly Ren -- used the Force to throw them again the wall or down a shaft. I mean, Ren stopped a blaster bolt in mid-air in the previous film! He can't escape a simple choke hold?
 
Luke is not perfect. (This is a little non-mythic, with straight-up myth being SW's strong suit, e.g. "the hero" unadulterated, but we still have that in Rey. This is why I don't mind no-backstory Snope. He is just the Bad Guy-Shadow. That's all. Vader had no backstory in ANH, right?

Well, Rey's not perfect either - she completely misreads Kylo Ren. I agree with a lot of the criticism regarding how Luke is handled in this movie, but part of why it doesn't throw my evaluation of the film off the rails is that ultimately Luke was right. Kylo Ren was too far gone to the dark side. He tries to warn Rey ("This is not going to go the way you think") but she doesn't listen. Now, I still don't buy that Luke would have reacted the way he did, but given that he basically saves the Rebellion and grows his legend even more in he process helps make up for it.

Vader actually had a very clear backstory in ANH, although the details were light. We knew he was a former pupil of Obi-Wan's before he turned to evil, and we were told he betrayed and murdered Luke's father. That's a lot more than we know about Snoke after two films.

On the balance, this movie works for me despite the flaws. Whereas TFA felt like Star Wars by numbers and followed the plot of ANH to closely, I thought TLJ did a good job of not playing things safe and subverting our expectations regarding Rey's parents, Snoke, and Kylo Ren. I still wish Rey had done more to earn the skill she shows, but I have a seven year old daughter whose favorite SW character is Rey, and that helps me remember that ultimately these movies are for her generation, not mine.

My grade is a B+, which places it around #5 in my Star Wars ranking, below the original trilogy and Revenge of the Sith, just ahead of Rogue One and Attack of the Clones, and well ahead of The Force Awakens and The Phantom Menace.
 
Here's a problem I had with the film: when Kylo Ren and Rey are battling the red "imperial guards", how is it that neither one of them -- paricularly Ren -- used the Force to throw them again the wall or down a shaft. I mean, Ren stopped a blaster bolt in mid-air in the previous film! He can't escape a simple choke hold?

I thought this scene looked like something out of a power rangers movie, and what's more depressing, was the nearest the film got to a light sabre battle.
 
Leia floating back to the ship after she and her command crew got blasted into space, that was more Harry Potter than Star Wars for me. She could be force sensitive like her father and brother were but i don't know if she was trained in the force. Those who read the books could perhaps tell me.

Snoke getting killed in episode 8 was a surprise. I thought he would die in episode 9. In the cinema, many of the audience were surprised, as i was, by Snoke's sudden early death.

Maybe Snoke was a former Jedi who fell to the dark side later on. His head injuries indicate that he survived something. Perhaps Order 66.

I loved Rey and Ren teaming up and fighting the Red Guards. A rare case of light side and dark side fighting side by side. A high point of the movie for me.

I loved Poe's comic routine with Hux who played the unwitting straight man. I want to see more of that in episode 9.

I also want to mention that i liked the Captain of the First Order's dreadnought. He reminded me of the original trilogy's imperials. Maybe he was a former imperial officer. Far better than the Millennial First Order officers:barf:.
 
The more I think about this film the more disappointed I was with it. It wasn't a bad film, but I've seen better from Star Wars, and I did think it dragged in the middle some, especially on the Resistance side of the story. I wanted to see more Ray and Luke considering all Ray did to find him in the first time, but it kept going back and forth from this story to the other story that the film itself lacked a little focus.

Also, this movie suffered when it came to backstory. We have characters and situations where I wish if they were developed better, those characters would have worked. As it was, this film felt like Disney stuffing a lot into 2 and a half hours and telling not a lot.

There were good things, like Leia was awesome, as usual (The tribute at the end to Carrie Fisher made me tear up a bit), and Ray still continues to be a great character for the new generation of Star Wars, but I wish the overall story was more cohesive than what we got.

C+
 
I thought this scene looked like something out of a power rangers movie, and what's more depressing, was the nearest the film got to a light sabre battle.

Yeah, and it completely misrepresented the characters and their abilities. Ren should have finished off those guards about as quickly as Vader worked through the Rebel soldiers in Rogue One.
 
Wow. In the original trilogy, this guy was a beacon of hope, so incorruptible, that he managed to take a guy who murdered a bunch of kids--and turn him to the light side of the Force. All this, while saving billions of lives by destroying the first Death Star, and being a major reason the Emperor--the most powerful Sith WE saw, died.

Luke is the greatest hero in a galaxy of heroes.

We leave him in ROTJ with more hope than ever. He won! The galaxy was saved.

His future looked bright. This guy loved the Jedi and what they stood for.

So he takes on a few students and his nephew turns? Even with that lousy turn of events, Luke's response is to lose all faith in everything and run away from the universe?

He was young and idealistic in the OT, but the idealism of youth is often tempered by age and experience. Luke has suffered a lot; his aunt and uncle - essentially his parents - were reduced to charred skeletons, his mentor was cut down in front of him, he discovered he'd been lied to about his father, who turned out to be his tyrannical arch enemy who then proceeded to cut off his hand. In the context of the OT, he survived all that with a sense of hope because he was the archetypal Hero™, but if you then add to all that his failure with Ben and his sense of shame, and that since ROTJ he's clearly, like the audience, essentially gone back and watched the prequels and disliked what he saw, then I think it becomes more believable that he would become disillusioned with the Jedi as a whole, much like his father did. The weight of it all took its toll on him eventually.

It was a theme of the PT and 'The Clone Wars' series that the Jedi Order had lost its way, and Luke's feelings reflected this; his opinion of the old order is completely backed up by what we eventually came to see of them. They were arrogant and hubristic in their proprietary claim on the Force.

I can understand people (including Mark Hamill) being upset that they went down that route with the character, but in a narrative sense, I can buy into it as an organic change.
 
So long as Star Wars is seen by people as being just Luke, Han and Leia, it can never be allowed to be anything else. If they're going to do anything new with this sequel trilogy, they have to get past those three. So let them die. Kill them if you have to. It's the only way we'll ever get anything new and different.
You can move on to new things without betraying the things that made the original characters what they are. Even though I wasn't massively troubled by it, I can see why the direction that they steered Luke in would annoy some fans.
 
You can move on to new things without betraying the things that made the original characters what they are. Even though I wasn't massively troubled by it, I can see why the direction that they steered Luke in would annoy some fans.

It annoyed Hamill himself. He's quoted as telling Rian Johnson "I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you've made for this character."
 
I did enjoy the movie but the First Order really bugs me. I just don’t buy them as a real threat.

In the original trilogy, you really felt like the rebellion was fighting for the freedom of the galaxy. When the Emperor went to the second Death Star to draw out the rebellion it felt like a big deal that he left Coruscant to be there (even though it was a huge tactical blunder on his part).

The movies want you to believe the First Order is the second coming of the Empire, but they sure don’t do much to show it. It doesn’t seem like Snoke has anything else to do except hang around and keep an eye on Kylo. It doesn’t feel like the First Order controls any territory (except the blown up starkiller base), and I don’t remember seeing any indications that they had any other ships other than Snoke’s flagship (now blown up) and the half-dozen Star destroyers we see on screen. If the resistance wasn’t so pathetically small, the First Order would hardly be a threat at all. It’s no wonder the New Republic didn’t seem to take them too seriously.

I also have a hard time buying that the New Republic would be so devestated by the starkiller attack that they wouldn’t have a response, unless it’s a fraction of the size of the old Republic. I mean, Mon Calamari or Corellia alone should have more ships than the First Order appears to. Surely they must still have a fleet of some sort left? Hopefully they’ll address this more in the last movie.
 
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