Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Commander Richard, Dec 10, 2017.
I thought rose was the third most annoying character in Star Wars, second to C3P0 and Jar Jar
Yeah I agree. Luke may even possibly sent Ben further to the dark side. This was not the Luke we saw in the OT. Luke made the wrong move and continued to do it. He finally helped the resistance late in the second movie after most of them were killed. Give me a break. Luke let the galaxy fall into darkness and didn't help because of his selfish self loathing. The Luke we all knew from the first movies was a hero and the incorruptible jedi. What I saw here was a miserable old man that couldn't handle failure. Rian Johnson ruined an excellent character and gave him barely anything to do in the movie until the end. Also his so called fight with Kyle sucked. Hamill kept in shape for nothing.
Perhaps the First Order was slowly killing their prey with the chase?
About the fleet, I would expect a reasonably trained pool of pilots would know to zig-zag their ships when they are being slowly picked off. Instead, they clustered together and kept on a steady course toward their destination, giving the Supremacy a better chance of killing them. (Yes, Supremacy is the name of Snoke's ship.)
I was waiting to hear Luke's third lesson to Rey. The first lesson was about the force and the second lesson was about the hubris of the Jedi. I don't remember it ever being discussed in the film.
I was amazed that Finn and Rey could freely walk about the casino. The casino is not like the casinos in Las Vegas, it was made more in the style of Monaco casinos. And, I can not imagine a couple walking about freely in such a casino, wearing clothing which marks them out as different from the regular clientele. Wouldn't there be "gate keepers" at the doors? And, landing on the beach, how stupid could they be? Why did they not land at another location?
After sleeping on it, I wish I could change my grade from a B+ to a C. This movie has a lot of problems story wise.
The Snoke thing still bugs me. Just way too quick and easy. The ship running away plot is really lame. I don't see why the First Order couldn't send ships ahead to cut them off. That makes no sense and the scenes come across as a bad joke to me. Finally, Luke would not try to kill Ben. That is extremely out of character no matter how you cut it.
Still a lot of good stuff in the movie, but I'm no longer looking forward to a rewatch as I'm scared I'll continue to find more and more faults, much like with 'TFA'. It seems a lot depends on the 9th film now for how I will judge VIII in the future, which is what I was sorta thinking after seeing VII. Not good.
Adding layers to a character isn't "out of character". Just because fans have this " idealized " notion of who Luke is and was doesn't mean the Canon had to conform to it.
A Luke Skywalker who nearly let his fears drive him to do something unspeakable and ended up causing those fears to come true is a much better - and more interesting - character than a Luke Skywalker who was a "paragon of humanity".
The First Order was enjoying the slow suffering death of the Resistance. They can't run away in hyperspace. They can't run away in normal space....they only prolong the inevitable. Might as well enjoy the Resistance's run, since there really doesn't seem to be anything better the First Order could be doing other than hunting down Luke Skywalker...which they've basically decided isn't really worth it anymore since the galaxy is basically theirs for the taking already. Killing the Resistance this way is more fun and keeps their own ships from being put in danger.
Plus, is seems quite clear that no one on either side is very good tactically. Akbar was probably their best admiral, but he went down. The First Order commanders all seem older than General Hux, and most seem mindly competent, but are about following orders. Hux just isn't that good of a general. The guy on the Dreadnought was probably a better ship commander. So you basically have two military forces that are run by hot heads or incompetent people who are left in command once all the leaders are dead.
There is no denying that character growth and change can be compelling. But to me it must flow naturally. We went suddenly from Luke who believes there’s good even in the darkest souls to him pulling a Mace Windu (which an argument is to be made that Mace abandoning the Jedi way and showing hypocrisy helped push anakin over the edge and played into Sidious’ hands. Just like Luke’s actions played into Snoke’s hands). Now why did this happen? We don’t know. We’re never shown why Luke went from giving everyone a chance to premeditated judge, jury and executioner. Was it his exploration of the Jedi hubris? We’re not told or shown. And it was my impression that Luke didn’t discover Ach-To until after Ben turned. So it can’t be that. Did Luke have a rough event between ROTJ and Bens turn? Were never shown so it doesn’t seem natural, like a natural growth of character. That’s why it seemed that way. But properly done, I agreed it was a compelling concept.
I haven't even seen TLJ yet, but I know enough about the film to know that this is an incorrect statement.
It happened because Luke is human, with human flaws and weaknesses, and temporarily gave into those flaws and weaknesses.
Nearly every word of this post is wrong.
Luke didn't change "suddenly" and we were both told and shown how his own hubris in believing his own legend led him to his failures and actions (from flashbacks, to his conversations with Rey, to Yoda, to even Kylo's words). It was all there on-screen.
You are GROSSLY misrepresenting Luke's actions with Ben.
Luke feared the darkness in Ben. He went to him, to look inside his heart and found that Ben was much farther down the dark path than he had ever feared. And for an instant, ONE SINGLE MOMENT, Luke reacted in fear. He immediately thought better of it, could never have gone through with it, and was ashamed of himself for it. But, of course, by then it was too late and Ben had already woken up to see Luke standing over him with a drawn lightsaber.
Luke didn't INTEND to kill Ben. Luke didn't PLAN to kill Ben. Luke didn't fly off the handle the way Windu did. Luke, who was no longer the idealist with nothing to lose, but was now the builder of something he intended to be much bigger than himself, saw a threat to what he was building, and for one single, solitary second he let his institutional role overwhelm his better judgement. For just a single instant, Luke became Obi-wan. (Who, as you'll recall, swore up and down every chance he got that Anakin was destroyed and there was no hope for Vader to be redeemed. Largely a position he held because of his own failure to make Anakin see reason, and his subsequent guilt for failing to end Vader when he had the chance.)
Was this really necessary? That was one of the most disgusting and offensive things I've ever seen anyone say on the boards.
I thought of another reason why Finn's story wasn't as pointless as a lot of people keep saying, it helped to solidify his place with the Resistance. Through all of TFA and into the beginning of this one, pretty much everything he did was for or because of Rey, that was where his only loyalty was, but by the time he and Rose are on Snoke's ship he is fighting for The Reistance.
I perhaps clarify, by suddenly, I meant real world terms. Last we saw Luke he’s one way. When Last Jedi begins with his scenes, he’s another way. I am going to see it a second time, so I’ll pay attention to dialogue more.
As far as my post being wrong, it is an opinion. So it could be wrong
Ok I like this explanation. Something to mull on. It is indeed human to make a heat of the moment mistake out of passion.
Good, because it's the Canonical truth.
Just a mediocre comic book movie which makes for a bad Stars Wars movie. D+
Yep - if anything Luke just showed he was a true result of being a pupil of Ben Kenobi and Yoda. Hell, Yoda mage a WORSE mistake with Anakin. Had Yoda NOT given into his own fear that Anakin the boy was something bad (from prophecy); let Jin train him and allow him to attain the position withing the Order his powers and abilities merited - NONE of the Star Wars Saga would have happened as we saw it.
The fact they had 'Force Yoda' there still giving Luke the advice he did (and destroying the old Jedi texts when Luke still couldn't actually bring himself to) at least showed Yoda had realized his own mistakes in life - and knew that 'starting fresh' was the better way to go.
I still gave this film an 'A' more for some of the surprises it had and good things I liked even though I honestly feel the whole 'Resistance/First Oder' stuff was absolute crap - and really drug the film down. It was poorly plotted and poorly executed and made little sense. The stuff with Luke, Rei and Emo Darth Vader wanna be (who I thought they were actually making into a better villain character then he had been in "The Force Awakens" until near the end of the film where Emo Vader Wannabe reappears in full force (pun intended)
The Battle of Crait does bring back one of the pieces of music that has been lacking since Return of the Jedi ("Here they Come"/TIE Fighter Attack).
Yoda didn't destroy the books. Rey stole them, which Yoda clearly knew. You can see the books aboard the Falcon at the end of the movie (Finn pulls a blanket or jacket out of a drawer for Rose, same drawer has the books). Yoda even says "Nothing in that library there that young Rey does not already possess." He knew the books were gone when he destroyed the library, he was just having some fun talking sense into Skywalker.
I thought Yoda looked the best he has since ROTJ. It almost seemed like the original muppet, or at least that was used as a base for a really good CGI.
I think they were purposefully going for the OT look. I liked it as well
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