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Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie.

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    290
fireproof78 said:
Missed opportunities.
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Well, sure. There definitely were missed opportunities. Roughly fifteen years ago. Still doesn't justify the level of vitriol being spent on the films now (or then, really). It's the same for what I'm seeing from some quarters regarding TLJ. Outsized reactions ... in this case, to movie that is actually much better than any PT film (and I say that as a PT film fan).

TLJ is really a character-driven vehicle, rather than a plot-driven one. And on that level, it succeeds quite masterfully, IMO.
 
Tsothohrha said:
Well, sure. There definitely were missed opportunities. Roughly fifteen years ago. Still doesn't justify the level of vitriol being spent on the films now (or then, really). It's the same for what I'm seeing from some quarters regarding TLJ. Outsized reactions ... in this case, to movie that is actually much better than any PT film (and I say that as a PT film fan).

TLJ is really a character-driven vehicle, rather than a plot-driven one. And on that level, it succeeds quite masterfully, IMO.
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It's one of those things that enjoy I discussing is the PT's flaws and "What ifs?" Probably a useless exercise but I enjoy it none the less.

People get enjoyment from different things. :shrug:
 
I'm not letting the divided fan response to TLJ on the whole get me down because I have a strong feeling that response is exactly what Rian Johnson and Lucasfilm were after.

However, I only have a certain level of tolerance for how that fandom divide manifests itself, and when you start delving into "TLJ ruined my life and Star Wars 4 eva" hyperbolic nonsense territory, , it's gone too far.
 
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DigificWriter said:
However, I only have a certain level of tolerance for how that fandom divide manifests itself, and when you start delving into "TLJ ruined my life and Star Wars 4 eva" hyperbolic nonsense territory, , it's gone too far.
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Oh, I'm the same way. Please continue and with my blessing :)
 
A lot of people (not calling them fans, don't deserve that tag) need to calm the hell down. Fans offer debate & level headed criticism, everyone else screams about their childhoods being destroyed or their lives being damaged because of a movie...etc etc etc

For example I have mixed feelings about ST: Discovery but at no point do I feel it's ruined my childhood of the countless hours spent watching Star Trek or my life in the present or future.
 
Jax said:
Over the last 24 hours, I keep seeing the same criticism online from a section of "fans" about no character development and they leave me just flabbergasted, what film were these people seeing? Poe, Kylo & Rey in particular see huge growth in this movie.
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While they suggest that its no character development, its really just not the character development THEY wanted. All of the characters in this film ended the film in a far different place from where they began.
 
I watched the movie last night with friends, and we all disliked the movie.
I thought the chase didn't make sense, why not jump before the rebel fleet?

And I was always currious how powerful a Skywalker would be in his prime, Anakin was cut in half before his time, and now with Luke we never know.
And why was Luke thinking of killing Ben?
He never lost fate in Vader to turn back to the light.
 
I wish they had revealed Snoke was the one who planted the doubt in the mind of Luke about Ben. Snoke manipulated Kylo & Rey and it would of been nice to have it revealed that Snoke did the same with Luke.
 
I won’t say that this movie ruined my childhood. That’s a silly notion.

I will say that between this and TFA, I’ve come to accept that Disney’s Star Wars just isn’t going to be right for me and that it is what it is. I still will go see 9 and give it the shot it deserves; can’t judge a film I haven’t seen. I loved Rogue One though.

As far as character development I agree that Rey developed. Ren and Luke we’re basically changed in a second; that’s poor development to me. Luke went from bitter and wanting to destroy the Jedi teachings to drinking the kool aid thanks to one quick conversation from Yoda. Although I really liked Yoda’s cameo. And if it’s anyone who truly understood the burden of failure it was Yoda (and Obi Wan. How awesome would it have been if Ewan Macgregor showed too? I’m still holding out hope for a Return of The Jedi like scene where Rey sees Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Anakin and Luke, all looking on with approval at her)
 
Jax said:
I wish they had revealed Snoke was the one who planted the doubt in the mind of Luke about Ben. Snoke manipulated Kylo & Rey and it would of been nice to have it revealed that Snoke did the same with Luke.
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That would have cheapened the tragic nature of Ben's fall.

Luke, in a moment of weakness, causes his own fears about Ben's future to become "manifest destiny".
 
Tsothohrha said:
Fifteen years on, though? Time to get new material, mate.
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SamusAranX said:
Luke went from bitter and wanting to destroy the Jedi teachings to drinking the kool aid thanks to one quick conversation from Yoda.
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That's not at all how it was depicted, though. Luke was clearly conflicted right from the beginning. To the point where he couldn't even bring himself to burn down the tree and books ... and then questioned Yoda doing it. Yoda gave him the advice and direction he needed to confront his failures and find direction and purpose (and peace). That's genuine character development.
SamusAranX said:
True, but it was so out of character from the Luke we know who never gave up on his father, who mind you *already* had committed countless horrible crimes.
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That's the thing, though. This isn't and never was meant to be the Luke we know. It's the Luke who believed his own legend. Who had too much hubris after ROTJ. The Luke who was flawed and realistic, rather than the "legend" we the audience, and even himself, believed him to be.
 
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Jax said:
I wish they had revealed Snoke was the one who planted the doubt in the mind of Luke about Ben. Snoke manipulated Kylo & Rey and it would of been nice to have it revealed that Snoke did the same with Luke.
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That was the impression I got from the various scenes. That Snoke had been manipulating people the whole time, and Leia realized it. Luke's doubts are probably his own though. Kylo realized it and then decided to go full on Darth Vader...before the mask, and follow through on the killing the master part of the deal with the Sith Lords.
 
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SamusAranX said:
True, but it was so out of character from the Luke we know who never gave up on his father, who mind you *already* had committed countless horrible crimes.
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That’s a reasonable criticism. At the same time, perhaps an older Luke had already lost much of the optimism of ROTJ Luke. People change. Things happen. Maybe they didn’t do a great job of explaining that but I think it’s a reasonable unspoken motivation.
 
Tsothohrha said:
That's not at all how it was depicted, though. Luke was clearly conflicted right from the beginning. To the point where he couldn't even bring himself to burn down the tree and books ... and then questioned Yoda doing it. Yoda gave him the advice and direction he needed to confront his failures and find direction and purpose (and peace). That's genuine character development.
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I guess on my second viewing I’ll pay closer attention because from the start Luke was bitter and stubborn about his new views on the Jedi. He was conflicted for sure about his role in Bens downfall.
 
Campe98 said:
That’s a reasonable criticism. At the same time, perhaps an older Luke had already lost much of the optimism of ROTJ Luke. People change. Things happen. Maybe they didn’t do a great job of explaining that but I think it’s a reasonable unspoken motivation.
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This is true as well.
 
I had a difficult time enjoying this movie TBH. Mainly because of such a huge nonsensical tactic by the first order. They had many ships, just friggin flank the Resistance. It can not stay inside range of weapons if the first order did not keep all ships together.

The recurring theme of the "heroes" mainly Poe just literally almost wiping out the Resistance single-handedly by his decisions and Leia just smiling at it...

The biggest bright spot I think was the character of Rose. I just wish she had stayed "support staff" and not do the piloting thing at the end. Would have been nice to see the character stay that unusual non-hero/combat typical
 
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