Spoilers Tech issue with 1x06
- Thread starter RobertCardassian
- Start date
We also very specifically saw how bad the visual acuity of a visor was, a 20% reduction off that would be near blind.
And that was 100 years more advanced then anything that would be seen here.
For all we know, Spock might well be Pike's 1st Officer at this point. The Cage took place a couple years before Discovery. Maybe Number One left for her own command.
She also has that giant implant on the side of her head that could be related
We've no idea how well Detmer's clunky eye works
Not as many farmers as there used to be though (DS9 "Accession"). Planets like Earth and Risa have a weather control net but Bajor doesn't, why? Bajorians may reject that type of technology for religious reasons. They lacked resources due to the cardassian occupation. Bajor is not a member of the federation which may prevent them from receiving as much help as they could be receiving due to the prime directive or some other rule. The federation and the dominion assisted Bajor with industrial replicators during the series. We don't know the proportions of people fed by replicated food vs natural food.
Geordi actually saw far better than regular people. He just didn't see like 'normal' people.
What Kim knows in his vernacular as a "replicator" is far advanced and refined beyond what Kirk knew in his as a "food synthesizer," which in turn was more advanced than what Archer knew in his as a "protein resequencer," and Kim wouldn't call one the other. Similarly, a "holodeck" is a specific type of facility that meets a certain 24th-century Starfleet standard. It's a virtual science lab, combat simulator, and recreational amenity for the crew all in one, equally equipped and effective for any of these purposes on verbal command. Starfleet ships of the latter 24th century come stock with this type of facility. In the 23rd (or at least in the 2290s) they didn't. But that doesn't mean that various Starfleet ships mightn't have had holographic/VR tech of various sorts for various purposes that would only later come to be refined and integrated as what Harry Kim knows as a holodeck. On the contrary, we've seen that this is indeed the case.
Per Scotty, they probably got in there the same way that thin air did: "through one of the air vents"!
They were never called that in dialogue TOS. They were referred to most frequently as "food synthesizers" and also once or twice as "food processors."
Yep.
"Breaking The Ice" (ENT)...
ARCHER: For the most part, the same things you eat at home. Our chef can make anything from a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to turkey with all the trimmings. We have a hydroponic greenhouse on board where we grow fruits and vegetables, and we can also replicate certain foods with our protein resequencer.
"Dead Stop" (ENT)...
T'POL: A matter energy converter...I believe it's a molecular synthesizer of some kind, similar to a protein resequencer, but far more advanced...I saw a similar device on a Tarkalean vessel. It was capable of replicating almost any inanimate object.
Nope.
With the VISOR, Geordi could "see" much more of the EM spectrum than he could have with healthy human eyes, from all the way down to 1 hertz all the way up to 100,000 terahertz, all processed/converted/compressed in real time to avoid sensory overload of his visual cortex. That's the range the 20% would be shaved off, and maybe Geordi really valued that 20%...or perhaps he was just a bit emotionally attached to the VISOR as part of his identity, having never seen via any other means. Pulaski also emphasized that there would be no going back and reversing the procedure if he didn't like the results. That would certainly tend to give one pause.
But/and/or if his later decision to opt for ocular implants was due more to technological advance in that field than his own personal growth of confidence, then surely that/those breakthrough(s) occurred at some point after TNG, not before. Maybe there had not been any significant leap forward in artificial eyes for more than a hundred years at the point he refused. Not every technology advances smoothly over time with steady and uninterrupted progress; some spurt and stutter, reaching several sequential plateaus before achieving a "peak," which with time may prove just another temporary plateau, and so on.
This was no retcon on DSC's part. ENT already had more primitive versions of them in the 22nd. And as to how much of a retcon that was to begin with...let's just say it's been a tad overstated at times.
Not seeing the problems others are with any of this, to be honest.
Um, there were no red uniforms on Pike's 1701.
Um, there were no red uniforms on Pike's 1701.
Wouldn't that be sort of the point?
This discussion has many, umm, entertaining aspects to it. A rather central point that seems to confuse many: if we see "modern" technology in the show, this is factually a surefire indication that it's primitive. After all, "modern" very literally means "something from our 21st century which is a backward version of Trek's 20th century".
Beyond that, it all appears to go around the same circles of "They claim there were no automobiles in the 12th century, but we see with our own eyes that there were, pulled around by horses and oxen!" and "It's implausible that they would have typewriters and televisions in the 22nd century still, yet there we see both, sitting right next to each other even!". Technological terminology may be utterly arbitrary, but it's still significant in distinguishing a steam engine from a diesel engine, or a synthesizer from a replicator.
Timo Saloniemi
Beyond that, it all appears to go around the same circles of "They claim there were no automobiles in the 12th century, but we see with our own eyes that there were, pulled around by horses and oxen!" and "It's implausible that they would have typewriters and televisions in the 22nd century still, yet there we see both, sitting right next to each other even!". Technological terminology may be utterly arbitrary, but it's still significant in distinguishing a steam engine from a diesel engine, or a synthesizer from a replicator.
Timo Saloniemi
About rec-rooms/holodecks. One thing to consider, apart from the "graphical quality" is the development of the AI behind everything. In TNG and later series you could have intelligent conversations with the holodeck-occupants. They were virtually indistinguishable from the real people.
DSC (or TAS) has yet to show anything beyond simple simulations/holo-projections.
DSC (or TAS) has yet to show anything beyond simple simulations/holo-projections.
Not a strawman. Just bringing your logic to its conclusion.
To spell it out for you:
You're saying that if food replicators existed on the Enterprise, then no one should ever need an alternate method of creating food. So, given that you at least agree that food replicators did exist in TNG, then all the various depictions of non-replicated food production in the TNG era must be canon violations. The point is not that you actually believe this, but to show the inconsistency in your thinking.
If anything, the strawman is you equating TNG replicators to TOS synthesizers, then proceeding to argue that TNG replicators didn't exist in TOS. No one said they did.
Not only that, but given that both the Enterprise's technology and Dr. Leighton's technology were described using the same word (synthesis) within TOS, then your argument should logically apply to TOS itself, regardless of VOY and DSC: Why does Kirk care about Leighton's food synthesis technology when he already has food synthesis on his ship? The answer should be obvious: It was a more advanced version of the same technology. But apparently that concept is lost on you, otherwise you would have understood Janeway and Kim's conversation in the first place.
We can mark the first appearance of a specific feature in 3D simulation easily enough. That probably isn't the actual date of the introduction of said feature in-universe, though, unless so indicated by the heroes.
Feel free to correct or otherwise chime in. These apply to tech in use by Starfleet or the UFP.
1) Freestanding three-dimensional images in general: 2256 in DSC "Vulcan Hello".
2) Moving versions of said: 2256 in DSC "Vulcan Hello".
3) Said being used for communications: 2256 in DSC "Vulcan Hello".
4) Said being used for training: 2256 in DSC "Lethe".
5) Said with tactile feedback: 2270'ish in TAS "Practical Joker".
6) Said with treadmill effect: either 4 or 5.
7) Visually perfect three-dimensional interactive images: 2256 in DSC "Butcher's Knife" (the mirror).
8) Said used for communications: 2373 in DS9 "For the Uniform" (characters comment on novelty).
9) Said with artificially intelligent interaction: 2363 or 2364 in TNG "The Big Goodbye" (characters don't comment on novelty/improved quality) or "11001001" (characters comment on novelty/improved quality).
10) Said fooling characters into thinking they're the real deal: 2369 in TNG "Ship in a Bottle".
Factually, DSC introduces a lot of this tech, but only in the sense that it wasn't seen yet in ENT. And basically none of it has novelty value to our DSC heroes.
Remarkably, too, there is only one case where a feature that supposedly existed earlier on does strangely have novelty value to later heroes - the holocommunicator of "For the Uniform". But even ther, the DS9 episode actually breaks all-new ground, as we have never seen visually perfect holograms used for communications purposes in a preceding adventure.
Timo Saloniemi
Feel free to correct or otherwise chime in. These apply to tech in use by Starfleet or the UFP.
1) Freestanding three-dimensional images in general: 2256 in DSC "Vulcan Hello".
2) Moving versions of said: 2256 in DSC "Vulcan Hello".
3) Said being used for communications: 2256 in DSC "Vulcan Hello".
4) Said being used for training: 2256 in DSC "Lethe".
5) Said with tactile feedback: 2270'ish in TAS "Practical Joker".
6) Said with treadmill effect: either 4 or 5.
7) Visually perfect three-dimensional interactive images: 2256 in DSC "Butcher's Knife" (the mirror).
8) Said used for communications: 2373 in DS9 "For the Uniform" (characters comment on novelty).
9) Said with artificially intelligent interaction: 2363 or 2364 in TNG "The Big Goodbye" (characters don't comment on novelty/improved quality) or "11001001" (characters comment on novelty/improved quality).
10) Said fooling characters into thinking they're the real deal: 2369 in TNG "Ship in a Bottle".
Factually, DSC introduces a lot of this tech, but only in the sense that it wasn't seen yet in ENT. And basically none of it has novelty value to our DSC heroes.
Remarkably, too, there is only one case where a feature that supposedly existed earlier on does strangely have novelty value to later heroes - the holocommunicator of "For the Uniform". But even ther, the DS9 episode actually breaks all-new ground, as we have never seen visually perfect holograms used for communications purposes in a preceding adventure.
Timo Saloniemi
Hear hear!
And show Romulans. Like TONS of Romulans just running around out in the open, with big signs on their backs that say "Kick Me- I'm a ROMULAN."
Out of curiosity. Among those struggling with the portrayal of fictional future technology in a TV series that spans fifty years and unforseen leaps in actual real world technology, are any also hung up on there now being female captains in Star Fleet, when that position was clearly denied to women in the 23rd century, or would that just be crazy?
The problem with that argument was Star Trek had a female 1st officer well before Janice Lester's shitty episode.
So that's a poor argument as it came out of nowhere and remains an old shame of the franchise.
Edit:
Mind you, I do think the kvetching about technology is ridiculous.
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