Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x03 - "Context is for Kings"

[Boomer359]

After rewatching I like the ep a bit better.

Why is she blamed for the war - which she seems to accept - when we saw that nothing she did actually made a difference to either the battle starting, or to the outcome of that battle?

I understand more why Burnham blames herself for the war than why others might. From what I got from it, in addition to feeling guilty about the mutiny and not being able to save her captain, she blames herself for the war by ultimately failing in her attempt to stop it before it began (i.e. giving the Klingons a Vulcan Hello).

I'm right there with you on it being bullshit for everyone else to blame her for the war. The Klingons were very clearly the aggressors. They attacked Federation ships in Federation space. I don't understand how it's even an issue.

Burnham's plan was kind of goofy, though. Unless the Shenzhou could destroy the sarcophagus ship in one fell swoop, I'm not sure it would have really done anything to stop the war.

Come to think of it, if the show was really determined to blame her for starting a war with the Klingons, I think the better route would have been to let Burnham's mutiny succeed, but her plan ultimately fail. That is, let her get off the first shot, but have it do nothing to prevent the already-summoned Klingon fleet from pressing the attack. Then it really could be viewed as her fault.

 

[zar]

One thing I haven't seen talked about much - why (in-universe) put Burnham with Tilly? My best guess is that Lorca is testing Tilly, seeing how much she'll tell Burnham etc., just as we see him testing Burnham in other ways. Which would mean he's monitoring them in quarters - appropriate for a prisoner, perhaps, but not great conduct toward a cadet.

I think it's implied that Tilly is the only one, or one of the few without a roommate. So the alternatives are, cram three in a room, or give Burnham her own room (no one to monitor her).

 

[Timo]

The only one who seems to blame Burnham for the war is Lorca. And even he only phrases it as "helping to".

The Crazy Lady in the shuttle blamed Burnham specifically for the opening battle costing the life of her relative. Since Burnham is the Designated Mutineer, she's an obvious one to blame for things going wrong, especially as Starfleet is unlikely to have released any specifics to the public.

On the other hand, surely Starfleet would wish to shift the blame for the war on Somebody Else. Shifting it to the Klingons is a good start, but Also Starring Burnham should not be a negative thing there.

How much about what T'Kumva achieved is directly related to him igniting the Light of Kahless? Supposedly, the Light had been there for centuries - was T'Kumva that old, too, or did he just collect ancient coffins to add to his collection of more recent ones? Is this system Boreth, despite our heroes suggesting there are no planets there (all the talk about them "forming" in the future)?

(..Has this already been discussed in some of the past hundreds of pages I can't keep up with no matter how hard I try?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[zar]

And? I doubt the president of Taco Bell is Hispanic.

Which has nothing to do with anything. Guy Gardener said one would assume Lorca has Asian "occupational heredity", which is true. Stop trying to create controversy out of nothing.

 

[eschaton]

Yes, but most family businesses that involve fortune cookies are Asian families.

It's 230+ years in the future. Is it that impossible to believe that Lorca has some Chinese ancestors?

One of the things Trek has been weakest on IMHO is showing truly multiracial characters. Given interracial (even inter-species) marriage is no big deal in the Trekverse, one would presume there should be way more multiracial people than in the present. IIRC people have tried to explain away how few POC there are in Trek by arguing the Eugenics war killed off most of the population of Asia and Africa, but still, there should be more people who don't look like anything in particular.

I understand the demands of casting in North America mean you're going to get a lot of white actors for roles, but I think it's a nice touch to signal that a "white" character with a southern accent has a Chinese ancestor.

 

[zar]

The only one who seems to blame Burnham for the war is Lorca. And even he only phrases it as "helping to".

The Crazy Lady in the shuttle blamed Burnham specifically for the opening battle costing the life of her relative. Since Burnham is the Designated Mutineer, she's an obvious one to blame for things going wrong, especially as Starfleet is unlikely to have released any specifics to the public.

Don't forget all those dirty looks she gets from other officers, and that quote in the season 1 trailer that "many consider her the cause of our conflict".

 

[zar]

It's 230+ years in the future. Is it that impossible to believe that Lorca has some Chinese ancestors?

No one's saying it's impossible to believe otherwise. I was just affirming the logic behind the assumption. You would assume this, just as you would assume Picard would have a French accent and Michelle Yeo's character would not have a Greek name. And I totally agree with you that this works regardless because it's set hundreds of years in the future.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Don't forget all those dirty looks she gets from other officers, and that quote in the season 1 trailer that "many consider her the cause of our conflict".

As this vessel seems to be overflowing with former Shenzhou crew, it would stand to reason that they would react more aggressively towards Burnham's presence than any other ship in the fleet. So she might not necessarily be getting a completely accurate picture about how most Federation citizens feel about her there. It's hardly a diverse cross-section of the population.

 

[Mr Awe]

After rewatching I like the ep a bit better.

I'm still troubled by the apparent confusion between what we saw in the two prologue eps and what everyone, including Burnham, seems to think happened. Her betrayal of her captain suffices for everyone's distrust and her being in prison. Why is she blamed for the war - which she seems to accept - when we saw that nothing she did actually made a difference to either the battle starting, or to the outcome of that battle?

The way I take it is that there are several factors at play here. For one thing, there is the public perception of what happened versus what actually happened. As the viewers, we know more than the typical Federation citizen. Additionally, we know what was going on on the Klingon side as well. We know they were basically picking a fight and that there'd be war one way or another. The typical Federation citizen is going to know only that she mutinied. Understanding the context makes all the difference--it is king after all!

Additionally, Burnham voluntarily took the blame. She felt guilty. Her plan led to her Captain's death and then she flubbed the plan by killing T'Kumva. Given her own beliefs about capturing him would prevent a war, killing him was a huge mistake that she feels bad about. She plead guilty to all charges so of course she's going to look guilty.

 

[zar]

As this vessel seems to be overflowing with former Shenzhou crew, it would stand to reason that they would react more aggressively towards Burnham's presence than any other ship in the fleet. So she might not necessarily be getting a completely accurate picture about how most Federation citizens feel about her there. It's hardly a diverse cross-section of the population.

I thought there was only Saru and the redhead?

 

[Mr Awe]

TSupposedly, the Light had been there for centuries - was T'Kumva that old, too, or did he just collect ancient coffins to add to his collection of more recent ones? Is this system Boreth, despite our heroes suggesting there are no planets there (all the talk about them "forming" in the future)?

In one of the first two episodes, it is stated that the ship had been sitting derelict on his father's property for a long (but unspecified) amount of time T'Kumva restored the ship. Presumably the torch was part of it.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I thought there was only Saru and the redhead?

Huh...guess you're right. For some reason I thought there were more there.

 

[Albinator]

The way I take it is that there are several factors at play here. For one thing, there is the public perception of what happened versus what actually happened. As the viewers, we know more than the typical Federation citizen. Additionally, we know what was going on on the Klingon side as well. We know they were basically picking a fight and that there'd be war one way or another. The typical Federation citizen is going to know only that she mutinied. Understanding the context makes all the difference--it is king after all!

Additionally, Burnham voluntarily took the blame. She felt guilty. Her plan led to her Captain's death and then she flubbed the plan by killing T'Kumva. Given her own beliefs about capturing him would prevent a war, killing him was a huge mistake that she feels bad about. She plead guilty to all charges so of course she's going to look guilty.

Exactly. Take away the Klingon scenes, and it looks an awful lot like she mutinied, convinced her Captain to go over to the Klingon ship, got Giorgiou killed, and assassinated the Klingon leader.

Sure, when you consider all the other factors this all doesn't look quite as bad, given both her intentions and the Klingons motivations themselves, and the precise sequences of events, but from the outside, it could surely be perceived by people who weren't there that much of the war was her fault.

Another reason why I think the title of the episode had a double meaning: **in context**, her actions were not necessarily wrong.

 

[zar]

Another reason why I think the title of the episode had a double meaning: **in context**, her actions were not necessarily wrong.

That's not really a double meaning, it's the exact point Lorca was making with that line... was it not?

 

[Gonzo]

Exactly, taken in context with the situation, the Klingons intentions and the Vulcans prior experience Burnhams actions were reasonable and correct.

The war was going to happen anyway.

She just happens to be a useful scapegoat.

 

[Mr Awe]

Exactly, taken in context with the situation, the Klingons intentions and the Vulcans prior experience Burnhams actions were reasonable and correct.

The war was going to happen anyway.

She just happens to be a useful scapegoat.

Particularly because she felt guilty and voluntarily took the blame.

 

[Rhodan]

I must seriously rewatch this. It was definitely improvement over two-part as far as far as writing and story goes and I definitely like the characters. However I still don´t know why the inmates are acting like if Burnham started the battle (unless they count killing the torchbearer as such) and those spores really seemed like a too much strange idea (or maybe strangely presented). And this whole serialization is seriously troubling for the real judgement. The opinion is incomplete becouse the picture is fragmentarized.

 

[Gonzo]

Particularly because she felt guilty and voluntarily took the blame.

She should have fought back really, no wonder Lorca wanted her after reviewing all the facts.

Also no surprise it was a back door court martial either, if she had fought and made it public she would have won.

 

[Albinator]

I took the title to be referencing something in-episode, but maybe my memory is fuzzy and I need to re-watch.

 

[Vger23]

I took the title to be referencing something in-episode, but maybe my memory is fuzzy and I need to re-watch.

It's a quote from Lorca during the episode