I found them to be blander and less diverse than in the past. Yes, some have weirder head shapes, but they're still a uniform mess of sharp angles and bald heads. And honestly, beyond the lead and the albino, I didn't know who was who.
Ok I'll say it- I like the DSC Klingons
- Thread starter Vigilance
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I think there may be more 24 houses in the Klingon Empire, but only those 24 have any real power and more minor houses are just servants of the greater houses. I think there was a reason why Duras was able to get with so much in TNG, he was the leader of a great house, if he was the leader of a minor house, he would have been punished.
Wasn't Duras supposed to be the richest Klingon House? I may have made that up, but I have a vague recollection he had a load of other houses in his pocket.
They seem really cool so far and I hope we get more story behind who the albino one is and maybe get in to a few more characters and their motivations like we did in the previous episodes. I hope we also see more of the politics of the Klingons... I've always found the Klingons soooo much more interesting where their politics are involved (eg. The Klingon lawyer episode and how their alliance with the Federation worked in DS9).
I still there are minor houses that serve greater houses. Kor would not have treated Martok like a peasant, if he was a member of a great house.
T'Kuvma's house is not part of the 24 great houses either.
I didn't dislike them. I don't think we got enough of them to really know "them"
I would assume having 24 houses at odds makes them a diverse culture, unified or not.
I would love to know how their look would be explained across Enterprise, TOS, and so on and so on.
I would assume having 24 houses at odds makes them a diverse culture, unified or not.
I would love to know how their look would be explained across Enterprise, TOS, and so on and so on.
I hated their look in the gut reaction thread but did like the look when screened, though I kind of don't reconcile them as Klingons but just a 'new' alien race. It works for me. They're fearsome and remind me of ants heads. It's like their expression is glued and masked into unsympathetic visuals of a one-dimensional enemy. Perhaps if they were better looking it would have been more interesting to see how the look of the enemy affects us. Yet it kind of reminds me of how when we see fundamentalists and extremists be they ISIS or KKK they wear masks or hide their humanity. Distorting how we are used to seeing Klingons certainly takes away any old friendly associations from previous Trek.
They have a prophesy to make happen and Michael gave them a martyr.
They have a prophesy to make happen and Michael gave them a martyr.
They look bad when you see the stills that were released months ago, but actually seeing them on the show is different. I'm starting to prefer it since they look more alien instead of people with shit on their face. I'd actually like to see less human looking aliens on Star Trek. I can't wait to see how the Andorians look, hopefully something modified from their Enterprise appearance.
Crusher: What would you like me to with his body?
Korris: It is now just an empty shell. Treat is as Such.
T'Kuvma: Waste as many Klingon lives as necessary to retrieve the dead so we can decorate the hull.
Seems that they should have taken the best bits of the Klingons throughout all of the series' to make the new Klingons richer and more complex in DSC. Instead they used them as a cheap plot device. It's not believable that T'Kumva could unite more than a small group of religious extremists much less direct the actions of 24 houses that have been decadent and in disarray for years according to Sarek. THAT is where the story is. Not having them magically unite after a single speech.
And yes, they look terrible too.
Korris: It is now just an empty shell. Treat is as Such.
T'Kuvma: Waste as many Klingon lives as necessary to retrieve the dead so we can decorate the hull.
Seems that they should have taken the best bits of the Klingons throughout all of the series' to make the new Klingons richer and more complex in DSC. Instead they used them as a cheap plot device. It's not believable that T'Kumva could unite more than a small group of religious extremists much less direct the actions of 24 houses that have been decadent and in disarray for years according to Sarek. THAT is where the story is. Not having them magically unite after a single speech.
And yes, they look terrible too.
It's a common enemy that T'Kumva is rallying around. Secondly, I love how Korris' attitude is expected to representative of the whole of Klingon society, over a 100 years later. This makes no sense.
Yeah, thanks. I got that. My point was they did a poor job of selling that bit in the writing which was pretty clear in my post.
Thanks again for missing my point entirely since I was talking about the development of characters over the last 50 years by actual writers and how to use the best of that to shape better versions of the characters with each subsequent production.
Here's something that might help. Try reading carefully and forming an actual opinion counter to the one you don't agree with rather than just picking other's posts apart without even grasping the point. When you do that I'll be happy to debate with you. Until then, please move on.
No, it actually wasn't.
Again, no it wasn't clear, otherwise I wouldn't be expressing it not making sense.
I did. If I missed your point, I apologize, but my general reading was that you wanted 50 years of Klingon development from a 100 years in to the future to be reflected in DSC Klingons, which makes no sense to me, either from a world building or writing standpoint.
Clearly there were already Klingons thinking the same thing as T'Kuvma, considering how readily the House of D'Ghor and House of Mo'kai were willing to listen to him. It came across to me that these two houses might have some pull on the council considering none of the council members apart from Kol spoke against them. It wasn't until the Federation fleet arrived that they decided to fight together, because it played into the prophecy that T'Kuvma was basing his actions on. One of the council members stated that a single federation ship was not a threat. If it had remained just the Shenzhou, I doubt the houses would have stuck around.
I don't think the Klingons choosing to fight together meant that they were unified, i see it more as a fragile alliance. I think T'kuvma would have seen a single victory as a stepping stone to unification, but not unifcation itself. However, with T'Kuvma's death at the hands of the federation, his group have a martyr and proof the 'we come in peace' is a lie. Unification is all but assured.
My theory is that the ships we have seen till now are, with the exception of the Sarcophagus, mainly romulan ships of that time period. Would also explain the Klingons having cloaking technology.
Maybe some Houses made a technology exchange with the Romulans in the hundred years between Enterprise and Discovery, leading to their alliance during the time of TOS.
For the Klingon language and culture appearing different to TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. Remember how different their culture appeared in TUC in comparison to these shows.
Their language in Discovery actually sounds a lot like in this movie instead of the mentioned shows imo.
Edit: Why have some fans problems with the new designs for the Klingons, when the same thing was mostly accepted for the Borg in First Contact, Voyager and Enterprise?
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Yes, that was a really interesting thing. I guess the Klingons and the Andorians have some unexplored common history. Maybe Andoria was a subject world of the Klingon Empire for some time.
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Honestly, I agree the anguish over their appearance here is ridiculous, but the Borg aren't really a valid comparison at all. Their entire reason for existing is to improve themselves - they should be upgrading and changing all the time. Plus their drones are taken from conquered worlds/ships from all over the galaxy, which obviously should have some kind of effect on their outward appearance, as well.
As far as the language debate goes: I agree the scenes as presented were too slow and ponderous and dragged the episodes down, but I also agree they were fantastic in selling the klingons as truly alien and other (which seems to be a Very Important Point for this series). Suggesting that they should just switch to english permanently would be a massive overreaction that would break far more than it would fix. All they need to do is adjust the prosthetics and the actual klingon lines of dialogue so that they can present a more engaging, nuanced scene without losing the alienness.
That would be right, if the Borg weren't retconned to have the First Contact Design even before Q Who in Dark Frontier.
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