Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x02 - "Battle at the Binary Stars"

[OpenMaw]

Just some of the behind-the-scenes decisions they made are bizarre. Starting with a massive violation of the Prime Directive (right after talking about it) by bringing the Shenzhou down into the atmosphere to rescue Georgiou and Burnham.

At least the Klingon stuff, while I find it doesn't work for me, probably wasn't the worst idea on paper.

I love the reveal of the Shenzou on the planet... But yeah, that again is another example, much like Into Darkness, of a heavily contrived scenario for a cool shot.

Personally, I would have changed the entire premise of this entire thing. The stuff with Burnman and ... Captain lady her name escapes me at the moment, has an interesting story behind it. Inverting Spock, basically. That and the captains somewhat naive approach to the klingons(at least, that's what the script seems to be driving at... Which I don't think is entirely fair?)

I would have sliced all the other crap out and had the Klingon thing in the asteroid field be a religious icon specifically connected to Kahless, and had T'kuvma's people show up enraged that Starfleet was desecrating their sacred ground, and have the stand off be a chess match over that. Misunderstanding, misinterpreting, situation spirals out of control, more ships show up, and the shooting starts... and in the background you throw in something vague enough that maybe this has been orchestrated, but by who? Starfleet Command? Romulans? Who knows. Hook in some stuff for the future to have viewers asking questions that they should be asking... Instead of "Huh?!" "What?!" "Why?!"

I couldn't stand Admiral Blast Hardcheese or his diplomacy by catchphrase. That's probably why I was more interested with the physics defying collision than who was aboard.

Plus the whole cloaking ramming thing is just silly. Just have T'kunamatata shoot Europa when her shields are down. Poof, done.

 

[BillJ]

I love the reveal of the Shenzou on the planet... But yeah, that again is another example, much like Into Darkness, of a heavily contrived scenario for a cool shot.

At least in Into Darkness, Kirk acknowledges he is breaking the shit out of the Prime Directive.

...T'kunamatata...

Gold!

 

[Gonzo]

I dunno. I think there is a possibility that if Georgiou's plan had been followed, T'Kuvma might not have fired the first shot. It's possible that he felt he needed to demonstrate Federation hostility towards the Great Houses before they would have united under his leadership against the UFP.

I say "possible," because I don't think there's any way of knowing with certainty. It is possible that Georgiou's plan may have worked and that Burnham's illegal order to lock weapons on the Sarcophagus Ship is what prompted T'Kuvma to fire the first shot. It is also possible that T'Kuvma was going to fire anyway.

I suspect that Burnham is going to have to live with that uncertainty for the rest of her life.

Good point!

The Klingons were always going to fire first as Starfleet has an inability to pull the trigger, the Klingons didnt expect Burnham to kill one of their own first but that was before the other Klingon houses arrived so I don't think it made any real difference.

TKuvma needed a spectacle to get the other houses on his side, any deaths that occurred before they arrived had no real effect, Georgiou did exactly what the Klingons expected she would do, I suspect that Lorca would not fall for what was a pretty obvious trap, for me it was pretty obvious even without all the mind numbing Klingon verbal that it was a setup from the moment it became clear that the communication array had been taken out.

Burnham knew what she was doing when she killed TKuvma, she intentionally set the phaser to kill as the light on the side turned red, trying to save her Captain but it was too late anyway.

The biggest problem for me with some of the Admirals that have been shown in the past and especially the one we saw in this episode is that they are all politicians, just desk jockeys who seem to always end up being made a fool out of, with the exception of Admiral Ross during the Dominion War of course.

Too many beginner mistakes from what should be seasoned veterans, I have never liked the amount of naivety I see sometimes, sure the Federation and Starfleet are for the most part the good guys but do they really need to act like such suckers all the time I just don't buy it.

 

[Noname Given]

He would definitely have acted differently and that is my point - Picard had ideals and the competence to take the right steps to bring them about. Georgiou makes dumb decisions which fail to bring about her goals so in the end her principles are just words.

Are you kidding? Picard would have also wanted to find out EXACTLY what that object was and he would never have retreated with such an object sitting in Federation Space. Hell, I think the only real difference between what he and Georgiou would have done is that (like many times in the past starting with the incident portrayed from Picard's past in TNG - "The Battle" and "Q-Who" and "Best of Both Worlds") -- Picard would have waited until his shields were down; and his ship damaged before returning fire on an attacking Klingon ship; and he even may not have used full power on his Phaser Array to do it.

Seriously, I don't really see how Georgiou made any real mistakes here - she had a duty to defend Federation boarders; and there was an unknown alien object sitting IN Federation space that may have had something to do with damaging a Federation subspace relay. Retreating would have been an invitation for the aliens (again, they didn't know it was Klingon at the start) to encroach FURTHER into Federation space. She was playing the hand she was dealt - and sometimes there IS no 'right' or 'safe' answer.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

T'kunamatata

Perfect!

 

[Noname Given]

It doesn't have a camera? Once Burnham got inside the scattering field, she was able to make out what it was without any issue.

She herself could see it with her naked eye yes (and that would make sense as you'd want techs and others to be able to work on it while it was in operation - but remember when she ran up to the Bridge from Sickbay (still suffering from radiation poisoning) she was shocked the weren't at Red Alert; and when she asked "didn't you check the data from my suit" the response was the image and data were corrupted. IOW any electronic data collection on the object was impossible even at close range.

 

[Gonzo]

At least in Into Darkness, Kirk acknowledges he is breaking the shit out of the Prime Directive.



Gold!

What also helped with the films was the acknowledgement early on that it was a reboot plain and simple, I get the impression that the creators didn't decide what Discovery was going to be until very late in development.

Better if they had not commented either way really, if they had left it open or had said it was a reboot the first two episodes would not have seemed so bad and many of the issues mentioned in the episode threads would never have been brought up in the first place.

The third episode is looking good from the snippets I have seen, a new ship and Captain should help.

 

[Nyotarules]

She herself could see it with her naked eye yes (and that would make sense as you'd want techs and others to be able to work on it while it was in operation - but remember when she ran up to the Bridge from Sickbay (still suffering from radiation poisoning) she was shocked the weren't at Red Alert; and when she asked "didn't you check the data from my suit" the response was the image and data were corrupted. IOW any electronic data collection on the object was impossible even at close range.

And it never occurred to anyone on the bridge to go ask her what she saw???? If it was Kirk or Archer he would have demanded that the doctor wake her up for a debriefing,even at risk to her life.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Plus the whole cloaking ramming thing is just silly. Just have T'kunamatata shoot Europa when her shields are down. Poof, done.

That's something I don't get; with all the wild pew-pew and dodge 'em going on, how did no one bump into the IKS Kahless' Can Opener? She wasn't a small vessel by any means, the flailing Feddy ships didn't know she was there, and the Klingons didn't seem to notice it either.

 

[OpenMaw]

That's something I don't get; with all the wild pew-pew and dodge 'em going on, how did no one bump into the IKS Kahless' Can Opener? She wasn't a small vessel by any means, the flailing Feddy ships didn't know she was there, and the Klingons didn't seem to notice it either.

Yeah, the geography of the battle was unfortunately suspect, and the whole way Europa was destroyed, equally so.

 

[Noname Given]

And it never occurred to anyone on the bridge to go ask her what she saw???? If it was Kirk or Archer he would have demanded that the doctor wake her up for a debriefing,even at risk to her life.

She was unconscious and undergoing medical treatment for severe radiation sickness. The doctor never had time to call the bridge to say: "Hey, Burnham is conscious..." As soon as she regained consciousness she asked the Doctor what happened and IMMEDIATELY ran up to the Bridge over the Doctor's objections.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Yeah, the geography of the battle was unfortunately suspect, and the whole way Europa was destroyed, equally so.

I get what they were going for with the Europa. The Klingon rammer was reminiscent of the Phoenician trireme. But for it to work the way it is portrayed, you need three things: gravity, buoyancy, and resistance in the form of drag. Those three forces hold the prey more or less in place for maximum damage. Since those forces weren't present at T'Custer's Last Stand, Europa should have tumbled away, not just sit there like a building. The writers and effects people need to bone up on this stuff and fast. It was a stupid mistake.

 

[Noname Given]

I get what they were going for with the Europa. The Klingon rammer was reminiscent of the Phoenician trireme. But for it to work the way it is portrayed, you need three things: gravity, buoyancy, and resistance in the form of drag. Those three forces hold the prey more or less in place for maximum damage. Since those forces weren't present at T'Custer's Last Stand, Europa should have tumbled away, not just sit there like a building. The writers and effects people need to bone up on this stuff and fast. It was a stupid mistake.

Meh - the Kligon ship that rammed had an invisible tractor beam. Or the physics of the Star Trek Universe are just different as we had the Enterprise 1701-E BOTH ram into the Romulan Scimitar class ship in a similar fashion AND THEN reverse direction and be able to separate.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Meh - the Kligon ship that rammed had an invisible tractor beam. Or the physics of the Star Trek Universe are just different as we had the Enterprise 1701-E BOTH ram into the Romulan Scimitar class ship in a similar fashion AND THEN reverse direction and be able to separate.

Right you are! Physics and Star Trek have always had a tenuous relationship. How many times did the Enterprise-D get flung like a frisbee?

 

[T'Bonz]

My daughter and I were watching the episodes together. When Admiral Jerk-o came on, I said, "why do all admirals on Trek have to be assholes? Except Kirk."

"But he was demoted, right?"

 

[Dr. Bashirs protege]

Right you are! Physics and Star Trek have always had a tenuous relationship. How many times did the Enterprise-D get flung like a frisbee?

*equivalent of a door dent on enterprise nacelle*

abandon ship! All hands abandon ship!

*explosion*

 

[Noname Given]

My daughter and I were watching the episodes together. When Admiral Jerk-o came on, I said, "why do all admirals on Trek have to be assholes? Except Kirk."

"But he was demoted, right?"

IDK - Kirk was pretty much a asshole at the start of ST:TMP when he took the 1701 Command back from Deker.

 

[Mr Awe]

Just some of the behind-the-scenes decisions they made are bizarre. Starting with a massive violation of the Prime Directive (right after talking about it) by bringing the Shenzhou down into the atmosphere to rescue Georgiou and Burnham.

At least the Klingon stuff, while I find it doesn't work for me, probably wasn't the worst idea on paper.

It fits in with the time period. How many times did Kirk violate the Prime Directive? My take is that it was just enforced less rigidly in that time. I can see Kirk doing something like that but not Picard.

 

[BillJ]

It fits in with the time period. How many times did Kirk violate the Prime Directive?

I can't think where Kirk violated it by bringing his ship down where every native for thirty miles could see it.

 

[Longinus]

It fits in with the time period. How many times did Kirk violate the Prime Directive? My take is that it was just enforced less rigidly in that time. I can see Kirk doing something like that but not Picard.

It seems pretty obvious to me that TOS Prime Directive and TNG one are not identical. They may have similar purpose, but during TNG it is much more strict, I don't think it is just Picard's interpretations. Laws and regulations change over time.