Great episodes with ONE moment that make you cringe

[JRTStarlight]

I think you're missing the point. What I linked to is the "canon". It's the only information we have. It neither proves nor disproves the idea because the idea is never broached.

Then I think we agree on the point. That link doesn't offer proof that Spock wasn't the first, and anyone saying the assertion IS wrong, as if they have proof, would be wrong to make so strong a statement. Anyone saying he was first isn't violating canon in such speculation or fan fiction or even proposed stories for the franchise, but it would be just as wrong to claim it as canon fact, too.

I don't think this was ever an issue.

Not with you, but somebody recently mentioned (I forget where) that apparently Sisko beamed home everyday. I haven't checked, but the way it was said sounded like it was canon, and I have a vague memory of that, too (maybe not everyday, but I think he did it often enough). Too often, IMO, not to wonder about the cost of doing so and the plausibility of beaming everywhere or anywhere and with that frequency. If that were canon fact, wouldn't it then suggest something important, like his family is rich, or starfleet picks up the check, or beaming is virtually free? I'd like to know.

Trek is full of tech that is non-conducive to good Trek-like stories. Mostly the writers ignore them.

A questionable episode out of many is easier to ignore than a big budget movie, particularly one that is so foundational to a new rebooted universe.

Transwarp beaming will join the others on the dust heap of one off ideas.

We can only hope, but instead they used it in two movies already.

There's science and there's Science. Most people get what the latter means.

I had a Christian Science believer and a Creation scientist subscriber tell me the same thing exactly. Unfortunately the place is not called the Vulcan Academy of Hard Science, so political science, social science, military science, medical science, etc. are all not out of the question.

The notion that time travel is impossible was shown to be false in the 22nd Century, so I doubt it's part of the curriculum.

The current curriculum, maybe, but with time travel, you can go back in time to a point when it still would be.

 

[JRTStarlight]

My particular objections to the scene have nothing to do with where the source footage came from. I simply find it completely unbelievable that Sisko would have paraded himself in front of Kirk like that just for kicks. By drawing attention to himself like that in front of all of the bridge officers, he seriously risked exposure for no reason worth the risk. /Debbie Downer

It's true. Like it or not, Sisko took a hell of a risk. For all he knew, Spock or somebody else, or even Kirk, might have immediately asked who he was since they might know everyone, have read everyone's file with photo images, and would know for a fact he wasn't supposed to be there. Then what would have happened?

Oh well, I changed all of history, but at least I got to meet Captain Kirk before I did it.

And the one jerk time cop even agreed he might have done the same thing. Of all people.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

My particular objections to the scene have nothing to do with where the source footage came from. I simply find it completely unbelievable that Sisko would have paraded himself in front of Kirk like that just for kicks. By drawing attention to himself like that in front of all of the bridge officers, he seriously risked exposure for no reason worth the risk. /Debbie Downer

Well, Sisko had already been up on the bridge at that point, working at one of the stations. So if he got away with it once...

Like it or not, Sisko took a hell of a risk. For all he knew, Spock or somebody else, or even Kirk, might have immediately asked who he was since they might know everyone, have read everyone's file with photo images, and would know for a fact he wasn't supposed to be there. Then what would have happened?

Kirk blanks on Marla McGivers' name in "Space Seed" and is surprised to discover Marlena's counterpart was just assigned to his Enterprise last week at the end of "Mirror, Mirror." He's got 430 crewmen with a fair amount of turnover. So apparently it's not all that unusual for him to encounter a crewman that he's not immediately familiar with.

 

[JRTStarlight]

Oh, I can believe Kirk spaced out - he does that. But would Sisko know Kirk is like that? I doubt it. Anyway, you just shouldn't count on everyone doing that. I don't recall if Spock was on the bridge at the time, but that would have been something to avoid.

I have often wondered how large the turn over would be on a starship. Maybe every time they hit port, they change out 50 or more people for all I know. And if so, and if Sisko knows that, then it becomes more plausible he'd know his odds of getting away with it were pretty big.

Even then, it's a lot to risk.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

For another, NuTrek and transwarp beaming practically makes starships obsolete, and I think the whole notion is stupid beyond belief.

No, it doesn't. It's more of a last resort than anything. You wouldn't transwarp beam nightly from your starship posting out in the Omicron Charles system to your apartment in Manhattan so you could sleep in your own bed on Earth every night. There's probably unknown side effects necessitating further study. Leonard McCoy does not recommend it.

I recall hearing that the novelization of T & T had Kirk and Spock mis-remembering Sisko's name when they discussed him later.

 

[Nyotarules]

Encounter at Farpoint, DeForest Kelly in super-old-man makeup. So we have transporters, sentient AI but no anti-ageing tech by the 24th Century?

Implying that medical science could advance in the future would NOT break willing suspension of disbelief.

Just because one can afford cosmetic surgery does not mean one wants it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Oh, I can believe Kirk spaced out - he does that. But would Sisko know Kirk is like that? I doubt it. Anyway, you just shouldn't count on everyone doing that. I don't recall if Spock was on the bridge at the time, but that would have been something to avoid.

I have often wondered how large the turn over would be on a starship. Maybe every time they hit port, they change out 50 or more people for all I know. And if so, and if Sisko knows that, then it becomes more plausible he'd know his odds of getting away with it were pretty big.

Even then, it's a lot to risk.

Spock was looking on, as was Uhura.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Just because one can afford cosmetic surgery does not mean one wants it.

This is McCoy we're talking about. If an operation isn't necessary to preserve life (Kirk's surgically-provided Romulan disguise saved him from being exposed early due to makeup being wiped off), he won't recommend it, least of all for himself.

 

[JRTStarlight]

No, it doesn't. It's more of a last resort than anything. You wouldn't transwarp beam nightly from your starship posting out in the Omicron Charles system to your apartment in Manhattan so you could sleep in your own bed on Earth every night. There's probably unknown side effects necessitating further study. Leonard McCoy does not recommend it.

Leonard McCoy probably wouldn't recommend anything dealing with transporters of any kind.

But yeah, if you introduced some nasty side effects that might curtail its use it would make starships necessary again. However, unlike that TNG episode, The High Ground, where they had a means to transports through shields, despite the bad effects to one's health from repeated use, nothing would stop anyone from beaming a nuke on board an enemy vessel right through its shields, so that's another example of something introduced that is problematic and should never have been allowed to become canon.

Even with health risks, Transwarp beaming is similarly problematic since they beamed onto the Enterprise moving at warp speeds and light years away, probably with shields or deflectors on to prevent most space garbage from destroying them, and I'm not even sure how they knew where the ship was, but Transwarp beaming does it all and then some. Ughh.

There always a chance I'm remembering some details about that wrong, though. Hopefully it's not as bad as I recall.

Then they beamed from Earth to Vulcan in a blink.

Well, my disdain is obvious, but YMMV.

Spock was looking on, as was Uhura.

That just makes it worse, of course. Sisko was lucky. And I had forgotten they reintroduced "dangerous" tribbles into the DS9 era. Despite the joke of letting them overrun Quark's, I can only assume the doctor quickly fixed them (he's clever that way) and they became "safe" tribbles.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Even with health risks, Transwarp beaming is similarly problematic since they beamed onto the Enterprise moving at warp speeds and light years away, probably with shields or deflectors on to prevent most space garbage from destroying them, and I'm not even sure how they knew where the ship was, but Transwarp beaming does it all and then some. Ughh.

There's also the possibility of drowning in a water conduit if you don't have a friend who lands in the right place. (Poor Scotty had Kirk)

 

[JRTStarlight]

That only looks like water. It's a massive distillery, and Scott was in no danger since his capacity to drink hard liquor is canon fact. Oh, you think it was an accident? Nonsense. Scott's always looking for an excuse to drink on the job.

 

[UnknownSample]

It clogs the brain to misuse it by dissecting scenes of a great TV show to find any and all possible flaws. I understand some of us see such supposed possible flaws immediately, and can't help having it bother them. All I can say that might help is that a good rule to go by is that as decades have gone by, I've unravelled more and more of these things, and overall, I'm now impressed with how often the makers of Trek really did know what they were doing, even when it didn't look like it at first. So trust them, and you'll probably figure out the problem later.
------------------
It makes for some more unspecified risk to say hi to Kirk. A lot? Do we trust Kirk and Spock with temporal paradoxes or don't we? I do. Sisko would probably have an emergency beam out planned if things went wrong. Maybe they interrogate Sisko a little. The sky wouldn't fall in. Just a bit messy, that's all.

 

[Tosk]

Not with you, but somebody recently mentioned (I forget where) that apparently Sisko beamed home everyday. I haven't checked, but the way it was said sounded like it was canon, and I have a vague memory of that, too (maybe not everyday, but I think he did it often enough). Too often, IMO, not to wonder about the cost of doing so and the plausibility of beaming everywhere or anywhere and with that frequency. If that were canon fact, wouldn't it then suggest something important, like his family is rich, or starfleet picks up the check, or beaming is virtually free? I'd like to know.

"Explorers" He only did it five or six times, and the answers you seek are in the dialogue.

Benjamin: I remember, Jake, I wasn't much older than you when I left for San Francisco to go to Starfleet Academy. For the first few days, I was so homesick that I'd go back to my house in New Orleans every night for dinner. I'd materialize in my living room at six thirty every night and take my seat at the table just like I had come down the stairs.
Jake: You must have used up a month's worth of transporter credits.
Benjamin: My parents, they never said anything about it. Just 'how you doing, son, how was school today? They knew that I would get over being homesick soon enough. And after about the fifth, sixth day, you couldn't pry me from that campus...

 

[JRTStarlight]

Transporter credits. That was not in my memory. Well then, I must away and see this episode again.

But cool. Thanks.

 

[JRTStarlight]

Ohhhhhh, I remember that episode now. DS9: Explores. Very bad science. Maybe even bad sailing. Why are they tacking, like against the stellar wind, if they are leaving the stellar system? They should have the stellar wind behind them all the way.

It should take much longer than a few days to leave the stellar system at sublight speeds - maybe years. It seems quite doubtful tachyons would do what they suggest, and to travel 5 light years in so short a time would be phenomenal, let alone survive a reentry into an atmosphere. At least back home at Bajor, we might assume they have facilities in orbit even then. Must have lost them through the ages, but that's not unusual.

One has to wonder even if this weirdness could take some Bajorans to Cardassia Prime where they crashed, how would that information have even gotten back to the Bajorans?

But that aside . . .

Jake thought 3 trips home would cost a month's worth of TC's, so when it went to 6 days, that could be two months' worth. It's actually good to know transporting is not free. But if rationed, students get one transport credit (there and back) about once every 10 days. That's a good ball park figure to work with. Or do you suppose it wasn't starfleet issue transporter credits for students, but credits issued to all Federation citizens or families in that more socialistic society? He did suggest his parents might have complained, like he was maybe using up some rationed credits his family might otherwise need, though they never complained.

And Julian is so bent out of shape coming in second at school and laments this, but did they later retcon that to be a deliberate mistake to come in second so he could better hide his illegal genetic modifications? Or did he really miss that question?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Said credits and replicator rations may have more to do with monitoring usage by individuals and managing the raw material supply, as well as preventing abuse of the technology. So some sloshed cadets won't play transporter tag all across the Academy grounds (or the world, for that matter), or replicate a bathtub full of sardines to prank their roommate.

 

[JRTStarlight]

One might better prevent abuse of transporter tech by not allowing individuals to self beam but they have to go through transporter control, a person manning the system.

Though as Picard said, most people of that time have sufficient self control not to do things they ought not to (or something like that).

Some do play pranks in Starfleet Academy, but I don't know if they use or abuse regular replicators to do it. Replicator rations seem standard - you probably get the basics no problem, but if you want more or better stuff, it cost you more credits. Otherwise, seriously, how could anyone be impressed you ordered Champagne and Caviar? Troi seemed impressed Worf was spending more on her and their meal, so I have to believe it cost him more of his limited rations, or it tapped into his credit account.

One thing I never understood was why Janeway thought recycling a gold pocket watch would reclaim replicator power. Apart from any old mass you might find laying around, every time to your alter its structure, that would cost you more power and take more rations. Whoever wrote that had some weird idea, I think, about how replicators work.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Literally every time anyone uses the word "Klingon" as a complement.

The only way I can deal with it is to pretend that "Klingon" is actually a word that means "warrior" and they refer to their SPECIES as Kronosian or something (or I pretend they're saying it ironically, as in "That's a very British way of thinking about it...").

Otherwise, the Klingons come off as RACIST AS FUCK and it ruins my suspension of disbelief that the Federation would ever lower itself to allying with these kinds of people.

 

[Kemaiku]

Literally every time anyone uses the word "Klingon" as a complement.

The only way I can deal with it is to pretend that "Klingon" is actually a word that means "warrior" and they refer to their SPECIES as Kronosian or something (or I pretend they're saying it ironically, as in "That's a very British way of thinking about it...").

Otherwise, the Klingons come off as RACIST AS FUCK and it ruins my suspension of disbelief that the Federation would ever lower itself to allying with these kinds of people.

The Vulcans are as bad or worse, Earth occupied by a fanatical government at the time for 90 years, abandoned by them in the Romula War, and yet a founding member of the Federation.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

That fucking unicorn dog in The Enemy Within. Similarly, Sulu's plant hand-puppet Beauregard in The Man Trap. I mean, I get that it's the 60s but I'm not totally sure that's an excuse for such hilariously shoddy prop work.