Yeah, I can definitely see that criticism. But I also think it might've been nice if Worf had something to do in that episode besides get turned on to prune juice.
Great episodes with ONE moment that make you cringe
- Thread starter JonnyQuest037
- Start date
I wouldn't have liked Worf being the enemy in Yesterday's Enterprise, that would have felt as coincidental and contrived as the mirror cast just happening to all unite in the DS9 MU arc.
I'll mention Gambit. Gambit is one of my favorite episodes in the series, but has one of the poorest payoffs in the series too. All that for an ancient weapon that doesn't seem like it outpowers normal weapons even if they didn't figure out the negative emotion thing.
I'll mention Gambit. Gambit is one of my favorite episodes in the series, but has one of the poorest payoffs in the series too. All that for an ancient weapon that doesn't seem like it outpowers normal weapons even if they didn't figure out the negative emotion thing.
Riker Dressing down Jellico from his easy chair. I think the intent is that we're actually supposed to agree with him, but it just doesn't play that way to me. "There's no joy in anything."? You're sitting in your quarters while the Federation is on the brink of war, & Picard's life hangs in the balance, & insufficient joy is your ultimate grievance? Look playboy... Wake up & smell the coffee
Not that either.
No? Do you say another vulcan went to and graduated from starfleet academy first, or that Spock did not no this, or what?
There is no information about the the number of Vulcans before, during or even after Spock's time at the Academy. But given the existence of the Intrepid and Vulcan being a founding member of the UFP its unlike Spock was the first Vulcan to go to or graduate from Starfleet Academy.
Then I think it's wrong for you to say it was "not that either" as if you had canon facts to the contrary. After all, I only said I had heard that, and I have, and you don't have canon facts to disprove it. Though you could certainly say the assertion is not canon fact.
However, I would surmise Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans and most other Federation citizens wishing to serve in Starfleet do not go the Earth's space academy, or Starfleet academy on Earth, but have their own schools - at least at first, possibly like undergraduate work, or a year or two of general education. I'm fairly sure all Federation academies would adhere to certain Federation principles and agreements and require minimum standards, but I think it somewhat arrogant to assume everyone wishing to serve in starfleet has to come to and go through Earth's Starfleet academy the whole time and nothing they have learned at home counts. Though I do also suppose they could take entrance exams and be placed in more advanced classes and skip the stuff they demonstrate a working knowledge of already, too, but if so, then they didn't really go all the way through Starfleet Academy, like Spock did.
We've never really seen these schools on other homewards, but I'd wager they'd be far more home-race-centric, just as Earth's doubtlessly teach much of Earth's history and human ways of thinking. What we share in common, Federation ideals, of course, would be required course work in all Federation schools.
Now maybe other races have to come to Earth, and maybe every Federation member is fine with that, but it seems wrong and unlikely, and ultimately, impractical.
We do know non-Federation members have to be sponsored, and I suspect they'd start going to the home world schools of the sponsor before moving on to more advanced training on Earth, assuming they don't wash out in the first two years of general education.
But the thing about Spock is he left Vulcan early on, mostly due to his half human heritage and resistance to Vulcan snobbery (if some are to be believed), but it was against his father's wishes when he chose to go to Earth and Starfleet academy there, instead of the vulcan Science Academy, so he could well have been the first to do that.
As for the crew of the Intrepid, I'd expect most of them graduated from The Vulcan Science Academy (VSA). After all, all Vulcans who had ever qualified to go there did go there, until Spock. Are you saying no one aboard the Intrepid qualified to go to the Vulcan Science Academy? Or they did, but just went to Starfleet when much older, having already graduated from the VSA and learned most everything Starfleet Academy could teach them anyway, at least for the beginning 2 or 3 years of a 4-year stint?
Well, it's not like I have canon fact to prove any of that, either, but I don't find it odd or unlikely Spock was the first vulcan to go to Starfleet academy on earth, go through the entire 4-year course, and graduate. And then he was under the command of Captain Pike for something like 11 or 13 years? Anyway, there would be plenty of time after that for hundreds of vulcans to go through the academy on earth for the full 4 years, too, if that's an absolute requirement, and still fully man a Constitution Class Starship permanently assigned to the VSA and the planet Vulcan. I'd just prefer the assumption most of those simply went through and graduated from the VSA to qualify for a berth on that ship. If they had to finish up at Starfleet Academy on Earth, then so be it, but to demand they do the full 4-years regardless of what they already learned elsewhere is just so much harder to believe. And for officers on the Intrepid, I bet there would be no problem using experienced members of the Vulcan space fleet, whatever it was called, and many of them may have never stepped foot inside the Starfleet Academy schools on Earth.
However, I would surmise Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans and most other Federation citizens wishing to serve in Starfleet do not go the Earth's space academy, or Starfleet academy on Earth, but have their own schools - at least at first, possibly like undergraduate work, or a year or two of general education. I'm fairly sure all Federation academies would adhere to certain Federation principles and agreements and require minimum standards, but I think it somewhat arrogant to assume everyone wishing to serve in starfleet has to come to and go through Earth's Starfleet academy the whole time and nothing they have learned at home counts. Though I do also suppose they could take entrance exams and be placed in more advanced classes and skip the stuff they demonstrate a working knowledge of already, too, but if so, then they didn't really go all the way through Starfleet Academy, like Spock did.
We've never really seen these schools on other homewards, but I'd wager they'd be far more home-race-centric, just as Earth's doubtlessly teach much of Earth's history and human ways of thinking. What we share in common, Federation ideals, of course, would be required course work in all Federation schools.
Now maybe other races have to come to Earth, and maybe every Federation member is fine with that, but it seems wrong and unlikely, and ultimately, impractical.
We do know non-Federation members have to be sponsored, and I suspect they'd start going to the home world schools of the sponsor before moving on to more advanced training on Earth, assuming they don't wash out in the first two years of general education.
But the thing about Spock is he left Vulcan early on, mostly due to his half human heritage and resistance to Vulcan snobbery (if some are to be believed), but it was against his father's wishes when he chose to go to Earth and Starfleet academy there, instead of the vulcan Science Academy, so he could well have been the first to do that.
As for the crew of the Intrepid, I'd expect most of them graduated from The Vulcan Science Academy (VSA). After all, all Vulcans who had ever qualified to go there did go there, until Spock. Are you saying no one aboard the Intrepid qualified to go to the Vulcan Science Academy? Or they did, but just went to Starfleet when much older, having already graduated from the VSA and learned most everything Starfleet Academy could teach them anyway, at least for the beginning 2 or 3 years of a 4-year stint?
Well, it's not like I have canon fact to prove any of that, either, but I don't find it odd or unlikely Spock was the first vulcan to go to Starfleet academy on earth, go through the entire 4-year course, and graduate. And then he was under the command of Captain Pike for something like 11 or 13 years? Anyway, there would be plenty of time after that for hundreds of vulcans to go through the academy on earth for the full 4 years, too, if that's an absolute requirement, and still fully man a Constitution Class Starship permanently assigned to the VSA and the planet Vulcan. I'd just prefer the assumption most of those simply went through and graduated from the VSA to qualify for a berth on that ship. If they had to finish up at Starfleet Academy on Earth, then so be it, but to demand they do the full 4-years regardless of what they already learned elsewhere is just so much harder to believe. And for officers on the Intrepid, I bet there would be no problem using experienced members of the Vulcan space fleet, whatever it was called, and many of them may have never stepped foot inside the Starfleet Academy schools on Earth.
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What I really dislike with the ending is when Picard tells the Enterprise away team to not think violent thoughts when Robin Curtis uses the Vulcan weapon on them. Not only is that impossible for people to control their thoughts and emotions on wim you got Worf of all people on that team. A klingon I would imagine would have a even harder time trying to do that. Even if was possible to do it you know you would have a "Ghostbusters" moment were you tell someone to not think of something and before you know it you got a giant state puff marshmellow man.
Jason
Imagine if Riker were there...
"Think no sexy thoughts. Think no sexy thoughts. Think no sexy thoughts."
*attack of the 50-foot Yeoman*
Worf is an exceptional Klingon, or became more so as the series went on and his lame tendency to jump up and challenge anyone to fight first before asking questions had been curtailed. As a martial artist and master of the bat'leth, his mind is more focused and I felt even he was capable to centering himself there, given the facts and knowledge that hostile thoughts would kill him. Unlike many other Klingons, Worf seems to embrace the philosophical side of Klingon heritage, and cultural aspects, many of which doubtlessly do not require violence, so he could concentrate on one of those. Maybe a Klingon opera about love and romance, for example.
I see where you are coming from but let's not forget this episode was only a few ep's after "Liasons" were he basically gets into a fight with the ambassador that was trying to provoke him in that poker scene. Even in "Gambit" one of the main stories is him showing frustration with Data as captain. I guess it might be possible though to center oneself for 5 minutes.
Jason
He turned his thoughts to prune juice
That makes sense, after all the idea that everyone has to go to Earth to study at Starfleet Academy is so flawed. The Federation has trillions of members of many different species. Starfleet personnel must run into the hundreds of thousands if not millions. There is no way San Francisco, unless it takes up the whole of Northern California is a big enough city to accommodate all those students, officers and teachers on one campus. (The courses might range from 2 years to 6 years).
Present day population numbers of the city are just 865,000, not even a million. How huge is this place in 22nd century Star Trek? Even where every Federation planet no longer experiences global conflict there is still enough danger in the universe for 'non military' Starfleet to be a mega huge organisation to keep the galactic peace.
Using real life Japan as an example 127 milllion people where 0.0024% are in their self defense forces. Even if you take ten per cent of this rate for the Federation that is still millions of Starfleet personnel where the Federation population is in the trillions.
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It not being canonical that something is true is quite distinct from it being canonical that that thing is false.
He thought about baseball.
While I wonder if they have other facilities away from earth we do know they have offworld training much like the reason Nog was able to return to DS9. Also we got to wonder how many starfleet personnel actually went to the academy. Who knows how many are enlisted like O'Brien and you got some who are brought into the fold like it was being talked about with the Bajoran Militia when it looked like they were going to be accepted into the Federation. Also I wonder if their is different places for starfleet marines and I wonder if doctors train at starfleet medical before going to the academy or if they even go to the academy unless they take some kind of extension course like Bashir mentioned when he tried to help with engineering problem. Also what was up with those science looking outfits on TNG that wasn't the typical uniform. Like the guy showing Picard and Data where they found Data's head as a example.
Jason
Spock may have been the first to not attend the VSA first, and thereby get a solid footing in Vulcan post-secondary education before heading to the (mostly) Human educational system on Earth and its affiliates.
It's possible to do distance learning, surely.
It's possible to do distance learning, surely.
That's another in universe that needs explaining.
For a planet that has billions of people plus whoever living offworld I assume the VSA is the offworld generic name for all the higher education, academic facilities on Vulcan. Having one place of learning where a percentage of 6 billion people can attend is ridiculous.
The non-science-y Vulcans who don't go to the VSA (and have no Starfleet or Vulcan military ambitions) may attend the Vulcan School of the Arts, or the Vulcan Religious School, etc. Maybe even the Culinary school.
That sentence is actually hard to follow.
Anyway, IMO, one may speculate about the Trek universe all they want, and unless another is in possession of canonical facts to contradict that speculation, I think it's wrong to say or even suggest they are "wrong" or that is "not true" when couched as a statement of fact. I would be acceptable, however, to point out that speculation is not supported by canon facts, or even that you feel or think it is wrong as a matter of opinion.
Your statement "not that either" suggested you had facts to back it up, so I asked what you had. A statement, "I don't think that's the case, either," is less definitive and doesn't really suggest you are in possession of canon facts that contradict the assertion.
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