Middle-Easterners in "Discovery"

[Longinus]

The Eugenics war wasn't part of WW3 though.

Or maybe it was. There is some good reasons to believe they were one and the same. You of course need to forget the references to the 1990's, which I feel is good idea at this point anyway.

Spock calls Eugeninics Wars "last of your so-called World Wars", but certainly WWIII, is the last? And if EW was major global war, why it is not numbered among world wars? Furthermore, In both 'Space Seed' and 'The Wrath of Khan' it is stated that EW was two centuries ago, but that's way closer to mid 21st century of WWIII, than late 20th century.

So some statements about the EG must clearly be wrong, so I think it is just easier to assume that WWIII and Eugenics Wars are names for one and same conflict, just as the Great War and WWI, and it took place in mid 21st century. That way we also conveniently get rid of that major alternative history angle and can still continue to pretend that Trek is our future.

 

[Kemaiku]

But if you read the original NY Times article, it still does not state anywhere that the Pope called the acceptance "terrible". He did call the idea of teaching school children that they can chose their own identities "terrible".

"In his remarks, the pope said the idea of choosing gender was being taught with schoolbooks supplied by influential donors and countries. He did not identify which. “This is terrible,” he said, according to the transcript."

If this is to what the starobserver.com.au article is referring, then it is playing a little loose with context.

Which is the some rhetoric people used to imply LGBP people could 'chose' their sexuality, it's simply evolved to transphobic rhetoric now and hardly any better.

 

[Refuge]

I wouldn't mind Discovery having a character that reflects my profile too.

How big is this ship again?

 

[Refuge]

I was refering to his more recent remark about the acceptance of trans people being terrible.

I read that article too, it is a year old. How is that recent?

 

[Kemaiku]

How big is this ship again?

Given the images of it next to the TOS Enterprise, about twice the size of her at least.

 

[Longinus]

Given the images of it next to the TOS Enterprise, about twice the size of her at least.

Wasn't that just some fan creation? I don't think it is nearly that big, the saucer edge seems to have just one deck.

 

[Kemaiku]

Wasn't that just some fan creation? I don't think it is nearly that big, the saucer edge seems to have just one deck.

But there are like 3 rows of windows. I know we're going down the starship size discussion route again, but Discovery is covered in windows everywhere implying a lot of internal decks.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think TNG got it mostly right. I really like how in 'Sub Rosa' they have this seemingly Anglican service, but in the prayer the references to supernatural is replaced with secular elements. This I like, and find plausible. Keep the traditions, jettison the superstition. I can certainly celebrate Christmas and think Jesus had some good teachings without thinking that the they guy was a literal god.

That was what things were like on one planet among, what, thousands? if that's the sort of thing that would float your boat, were you living as a Federation citizen in that imagined future, then I'm sure that you would be free to move there. But that doesn't mean that that attitude is Federation-wide.

In "Balance of Terror," Kirk spoke of "our many beliefs" as he stood in the ship's chapel before an altar bearing what probably were different religious symbols, as he was about to marry two of his crew*. Kirk implied a persisting and general belief in one god in "Who Mourns for Adonais?", saying "Mankind has no need for gods. We find the one quite adequate" and using the present tense of find instead of found. Picard and his senior staff entertained the possibility of a cosmic plan in "Pen Pals." There are plenty of other examples that humans in the Federation are not uniformly atheist in the 23rd-24th centuries.

* - to each other

 

[Fateor]

Nothing in the shows indicates that. Seems like India would've been wiped out considering everyone turned on Khan.

WW3 was North America against the Eastern Coalition.

Even without that however, a Nuclear World War where America took as large a hit as it did would have resulted in the middle east imploding for a remarkably large number of reasons. Not the least of which everyone and their mothers trying to destroy Israel and Israel very likely letting fly the nukes.

 

[fireproof78]

Can't the religious enjoy an irreligious point of view, the way I can enjoy a theistic film like that?

Sure, all the time. I just enjoy seeing a plethora of viewpoints in a setting that is, supposedly, very open and accepting.

Personally if there's a God who would send me to hell just for not believing in him, that's not a god I'm interested in worshipping and I'd rather go to hell.

Didn't we just have a thread about this? I'm having deja vu.

Mankind has no need for gods. We find the one quite adequate" and using the present tense of find instead of found.

Clearly he was referring to the "Great Bird of the Galaxy."

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't have the time to read through seven pages of thread, especially since skimming the first page and a half indicate things went off the rails early on. So I'll just say that bringing Faran Tahir back as Captain (or perhaps Commodore or even Admiral) Robau would please me very much.

 

[Nerys Myk]

WW3 was North America against the Eastern Coalition.

Even without that however, a Nuclear World War where America took as large a hit as it did would have resulted in the middle east imploding for a remarkably large number of reasons. Not the least of which everyone and their mothers trying to destroy Israel and Israel very likely letting fly the nukes.

IIRC, the Eastern Coalition was supposed to be China and it's allies. For all we know the Middle East sat WWIII out.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't have the time to read through seven pages of thread, especially since skimming the first page and a half indicate things went off the rails early on. So I'll just say that bringing Faran Tahir back as Captain (or perhaps Commodore or even Admiral) Robau would please me very much.

/thread

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

FWIW, I don't recall the major gripe with Saldana's casting being her nationality. From what I remember, the major gripe was that she didn't look like a person whose ancestors were from a central African country, as Nichelle Nichols did. Saldana actually looked more like she could have been from a northern African country, Ethiopia or Egypt maybe.

There was that, but I do remember people complaining that Saldana was Dominican, and thus "not black". The reasons were not limited simply to "because her Mother is Puerto Rican" but the stated reason was also "... and her father is Dominican". They seemed to miss the fact that her father is Dominican, but of African heritage.

That would be like people saying that President Obama wasn't black because his father was Kenyan, but his mother was white.

 

[Fateor]

IIRC, the Eastern Coalition was supposed to be China and it's allies. For all we know the Middle East sat WWIII out.

You don't really understand the way things work do you?

The Middle East, Africa, and South America do not survive the economic, environmental, and Sociopolitical effects of WW3. With trade ceased their economies would collapse while also eliminating the food imports that keep their populations from starving. The environmental effects would add to this causing a further reduction in their ability to actually grow food forcing their populations from starvation to "we have to invade others and steal their food to live".

Now if that wasn't bad enough without the US military acting as a Bulwark during all this the Arab nations would go full hog in their attempts to destroy Israel. Which since Israel doesn't have the conventional forces necessary to fight off all of those nations without the US means they will result to a per-emptive nuclear strike against any state that so much as looks at them funny.

So yea, the Middle East, Africa, and South America would be complete and utter write offs after WW3 no matter who fought it.

Very likely China and India would be too due to the whole "Starvation" thing.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You don't really understand the way things work do you?

It's a fictional war from a SF franchise. It works however the writers want. Right now it's just a couple of throw away lines in a movie. That's the way it works.

 

[Mage]

7 pages of thread I'm not gonna weed through, but I kinda hope religion on Earth will be tackled, and in a way were religions have learned to disagree but live and work together.
Like in TOS, where society could see a woman of color and a Russian man working together with white men and an alien, to show that we can actually learn to live and work as one, we should something similiar in religion.

Sure, it's nice to say that we'll have 'evolved' beyond religion by then. Two thing though:
1. No we won't. Religion has been part of our planet in some form or another for thousands of years. That won't go away in 3 centuries. It can change, sure. But disappear? That's just silly.
2. It's about now. Showing people that live here and now that as a human race, no matter your color, gender (or gender-choice), sexual preference or your religion, we can all unite.

 

[Mudd]

You don't really understand the way things work do you?

The Middle East, Africa, and South America do not survive the economic, environmental, and Sociopolitical effects of WW3. With trade ceased their economies would collapse while also eliminating the food imports that keep their populations from starving. The environmental effects would add to this causing a further reduction in their ability to actually grow food forcing their populations from starvation to "we have to invade others and steal their food to live".

Now if that wasn't bad enough without the US military acting as a Bulwark during all this the Arab nations would go full hog in their attempts to destroy Israel. Which since Israel doesn't have the conventional forces necessary to fight off all of those nations without the US means they will result to a per-emptive nuclear strike against any state that so much as looks at them funny.

So yea, the Middle East, Africa, and South America would be complete and utter write offs after WW3 no matter who fought it.

Very likely China and India would be too due to the whole "Starvation" thing.

This is a lot of nonsense that conveniently spares the U.S.

 

[CorporalClegg]

You don't really understand the way things work do you?

The Middle East, Africa, and South America do not survive the economic, environmental, and Sociopolitical effects of WW3. With trade ceased their economies would collapse while also eliminating the food imports that keep their populations from starving. The environmental effects would add to this causing a further reduction in their ability to actually grow food forcing their populations from starvation to "we have to invade others and steal their food to live".

Now if that wasn't bad enough without the US military acting as a Bulwark during all this the Arab nations would go full hog in their attempts to destroy Israel. Which since Israel doesn't have the conventional forces necessary to fight off all of those nations without the US means they will result to a per-emptive nuclear strike against any state that so much as looks at them funny.

So yea, the Middle East, Africa, and South America would be complete and utter write offs after WW3 no matter who fought it.

Very likely China and India would be too due to the whole "Starvation" thing.

Your jingo is showing.

 

[BillJ]

It's a fictional war from a SF franchise. It works however the writers want. Right now it's just a couple of throw away lines in a movie. That's the way it works.

It's REAL!!!