Dark Matter Season 3

[Wouter]

"Hot chocolate" was an excellent episode, fast paced and entertaining from start to finish. Ryo had a much better showing here than we lately have gotten used to, and one would even think reconciliation is still possible. Knowing that "the house of Ishida" will fall, most likely this season yet, puts that in grave doubt, though. I liked it that Ryo kept the memories from his encounter, and that his attempt to sway the newly independent colonies to join the league of autonomous worlds (and be his allies there) was successful.

I'm guessing the delegate was murdered by one of the other three, but there is really no way to tell until and unless the show will revisit this. He may have been murdered because one of the others believed he had warned Ferrous, or because there is still a traitor among them.

Next week looks like a potentially fun episode.

 

[Marc]

I'm guessing the delegate was murdered by one of the other three, but there is really no way to tell until and unless the show will revisit this. He may have been murdered because one of the others believed he had warned Ferrous, or because there is still a traitor among them.

Some of the recent setups haven't been fully explained until a couple of weeks down the track (such as the person used to hack the Android though it wasn't fully explained even last night) so it's quite possible that it will get touched on again.

Last thing I saw Von Flores in (apart from Earth: Final Conflct) was an ad for the Toronto Blue Jays

Next week looks like a potentially fun episode.

and the sneak peak from this week's After Dark is a very very bigger spoiler.

 

[cylkoth]

I'm guessing the delegate was murdered by one of the other three, but there is really no way to tell until and unless the show will revisit this. He may have been murdered because one of the others believed he had warned Ferrous, or because there is still a traitor among them.

Yeah, but did Five bother to tell Six what the Android told her? These characters would fit right in on Lost, they never tell anybody what they need to know!

Some of the recent setups haven't been fully explained until a couple of weeks down the track (such as the person used to hack the Android though it wasn't fully explained even last night) so it's quite possible that it will get touched on again.

Remote hacking a main character is something that needed explaining, and it's irksome that they didn't fully account for how Ryo's remote viewer (Aenar! drat, no antennae!) pulled this off.

Other than that, great episode. Best use of Ryo thus far in the season, and a fantastic fight scene between him and Two.

After Dark for this week

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Dark Matter at Comic Con 2017
Syfy Wire cast interview-minus Roger Cross and Zoe Palmer

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Melissa O'Neil and Alex Mallari Jr

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Jodelle Ferland and Anthony Lemke

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[Wouter]

Some of the recent setups haven't been fully explained until a couple of weeks down the track (such as the person used to hack the Android though it wasn't fully explained even last night) so it's quite possible that it will get touched on again.

and the sneak peak from this week's After Dark is a very very bigger spoiler.

I agree, this will come back into play at some point (and who knows, maybe it was someone of the crew after all, though I'm not seeing a motive, for now). DM is generally very good at continuity, "Hot Chocolate" had quite a few elements from earliers episodes and even seasons return and then ended by setting up the next episode.

As for the sneak peak - they have to be able to make a funny episode based on that premise.

 

[Wouter]

Yeah, but did Five bother to tell Six what the Android told her? These characters would fit right in on Lost, they never tell anybody what they need to know!

Remote hacking a main character is something that needed explaining, and it's irksome that they didn't fully account for how Ryo's remote viewer (Aenar! drat, no antennae!) pulled this off.

Other than that, great episode. Best use of Ryo thus far in the season, and a fantastic fight scene between him and Two.

It is a bit disappointing that both Android and Five kept this quite vital piece of info from the othes. Two should have known this a long time ago, and she should probably have made use of the opportunity to tell Ryo that his cruiser was taken by their alt-counterparts.

The fight scene was great, but given what was established before about Two's superhuman abilities, she probably should have decisively won that fight. Ryo is well trained, an expert fighter, but he is "only human". Allthough, the show did this earlier with Tash (and Nyx, though she has a decent excuse for not losing), too.

 

[cylkoth]

^^ They should have had Ryo tease her by saying ''I know your moves better than you do..'', just to get under her skin and possibly keep her off balance.

 

[Christopher]

I totally didn't recognize Von Flores until I saw his name in the credits. It's been a long time since I've seen him. At least, I thought it was. I just checked IMDb to see if Earth: Final Conflict was the last time I saw him, and it turns out he was in a Lost Girl episode and the first season finale of Killjoys. So I have seen him fairly recently, but without recognizing him. Neither of those shows must've listed him in the Act I credits.

Anyway, I strongly suspect his character is the murderer. There was that weird bit after the three delegates picked out weapons where he stayed behind and swung his sword with what looked like real skill, but later he seemed to panic and drop his weapon along with the other two. So I think he's hiding his true abilities.

 

[Wouter]

In this and/or earlier threads, we had a discussion about the way One's storyline was cut off at the beginning of S2. I asked the show's creator himself about that (he is remarkably open and approachable, in several different ways). spoiler code:

Spoiler: Derrick Moss storyline

Mallozzi was planning to do a story this season that would touch upon One's background (things like, who killed his wife, allthough I'm not sure this story would have revealed that), but he couldn't get all the pieces in place. I presume that a necessary actor (or even actresses) were not available at the right time.
Derrick Moss hasn't been forgotten, though.

I also asked about Kierken:

Spoiler

His answer (I pointed at the possible use of clones): "the show is full of surprises. For the moment, let's assume he died in the explosion."
So, looks like Kierken may be back if the actor is available at the right time.

 

[JD]

This was a pretty good episode.
The Android being hacked was a nice twist, at first I thought maybe she'd somehow been replaced by alternate universe Android.
It was nice to get another face to face confrontation with Ryo, and we got a pretty cool fight scene out of it too.
Ryo getting the colonists to the join the League of Autonomous Worlds was an surprising development, it'll be interesting to see what kind of impact that has on the story.
I liked how they had Sarah helping Five, it was nice to see her getting to do more than hang out in her virtual world.

 

[Christopher]

The Android being hacked was a nice twist, at first I thought maybe she'd somehow been replaced by alternate universe Android.

We've seen the alternate universe Android twice, enough to know that she behaves identically to our Android. In this case, the Android was acting unlike either of them, with weird head tilts and sinister expressions, so it was pretty clear that something else was going on.

It was nice to get another face to face confrontation with Ryo, and we got a pretty cool fight scene out of it too.

Yeah, they're jumping on the "do a long stunt sequence in a single unbroken take" bandwagon. It wasn't quite as impressive as the single-take fights that Daredevil, Agents of SHIELD, and Arrow have pulled off, but it was a good effort.

Ryo getting the colonists to the join the League of Autonomous Worlds was an surprising development, it'll be interesting to see what kind of impact that has on the story.

It's nice to see him actually be cunning and diplomatic for a change, instead of the one-note "Kill and torture everyone who gets in my way so the people will love me!" tyrant he's been reduced to lately.

I liked how they had Sarah helping Five, it was nice to see her getting to do more than hang out in her virtual world.

They really need to buy a new android and customize it to look like Sarah, so they can download her into it. Or maybe there's a way to create a transfer clone that doesn't dissolve after a few days?

 

[Wouter]

They really need to buy a new android and customize it to look like Sarah, so they can download her into it. Or maybe there's a way to create a transfer clone that doesn't dissolve after a few days?

As far as the Android body goes, JM has confirmed that it is technically possible in the DM universe, but actually finding the necessary parts, technicians and facilities isn't so easy. The actual Android on the ship is not standard issue, she's been tampered with at least twice.
JM seems to want to preserve the actress so he also talked about creating a bespoke Android body, which would further complicate matters.

 

[cylkoth]

In this and/or earlier threads, we had a discussion about the way One's storyline was cut off at the beginning of S2.

From this past weekend at Comic Con, co-executive producer Jay Firestone elaborates on the whys of Derrick Moss' sudden death. (background chatter makes it difficult to hear his audio)

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[Christopher]

As far as the Android body goes, JM has confirmed that it is technically possible in the DM universe, but actually finding the necessary parts, technicians and facilities isn't so easy.

That seems inconsistent. The "Wendy" episode in season 1 suggested that androids were a widely available commercial product and that at least the entertainment models were designed to have customizable appearances.

Besides, this is the Raza crew. They don't need to buy an android -- they can find one that suits their needs and steal it.

The actual Android on the ship is not standard issue, she's been tampered with at least twice.

Well, yes, of course, I take it as a given that her new android body would need one of the "human emulation" chips. But a few weeks ago, the Android offered one of those chips to some random guard android, suggesting that the Raza has the capability to replicate them.

 

[Wouter]

That seems inconsistent. The "Wendy" episode in season 1 suggested that androids were a widely available commercial product and that at least the entertainment models were designed to have customizable appearances.

Besides, this is the Raza crew. They don't need to buy an android -- they can find one that suits their needs and steal it.

Well, yes, of course, I take it as a given that her new android body would need one of the "human emulation" chips. But a few weeks ago, the Android offered one of those chips to some random guard android, suggesting that the Raza has the capability to replicate them.

I don't 100% remember the details in the "Wendy" episode (one of my least favorite, Jamaican accent aside), but JM was specifically talking about creating a very good copy of Sarah's body. If the customisation, spoken about in S1, is more akin to changing your avatar in an RPG-computer game, then this would be another matter than an Android body built to resemble an existing human being to a very high degree.

Come to think of it, it's probably illegal, not that that would stop the Raza crew

The Android was already modified (or even specifically created as a non-standard model - that's not clear, we are going to find out in Ep.10) before the "human emulation" chip came in play. At the very least Portia had already tampered with it before the events in the pilot episode. Those modifications are visible in the alt-Android, as well.

In one of the earliest episodes, Six said about Android: "let"s face it, ours is a little different". What seemed a throwaway line at the time is getting explored now.

 

[Christopher]

I don't 100% remember the details in the "Wendy" episode (one of my least favorite, Jamaican accent aside), but JM was specifically talking about creating a very good copy of Sarah's body. If the customisation, spoken about in S1, is more akin to changing your avatar in an RPG-computer game, then this would be another matter than an Android body built to resemble an existing human being to a very high degree.

Well, I mean, Sarah's a disembodied consciousness stuck inside a ship computer. Beggars can't be choosers. An imperfect emulation should be good enough to start with. It's an easy handwave to say they could customize the face to look like Sarah's even if the bodily functions are more android-like. Heck, it should be easy to 3D-print an android face mask based on any given face you have photos of. We're practically to the point of being able to do that now, let alone however many centuries in the future they are (which I assume we'll finally find out on Friday).

The Android was already modified (or even specifically created as a non-standard model - that's not clear, we are going to find out in Ep.10) before the "human emulation" chip came in play. At the very least Portia had already tampered with it before the events in the pilot episode. Those modifications are visible in the alt-Android, as well.

Of course I know that, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion. I'm not talking about the Android, I'm talking about what would be involved in getting another android body for Sarah. Obviously there are plenty of androids in the DM universe -- enough that a fair number of them could go rogue and live as humans and the decrease in numbers would not be noticed. We know they are sold as entertainment commodities and are humanlike enough to function as sexbots, so they could be adequate as a substitute body for a disembodied human consciousness -- at least enough to allow Sarah to move around and interact in the real world again. And presumably the emulation chip would be needed to allow Sarah to express her normal personality and emotions freely -- although it's possible that would happen automatically just from downloading her existing consciousness into a "vacant" body.

 

[Wouter]

We know they are sold as entertainment commodities and are humanlike enough to function as sexbots, so they could be adequate as a substitute body for a disembodied human consciousness -- at least enough to allow Sarah to move around and interact in the real world again. And presumably the emulation chip would be needed to allow Sarah to express her normal personality and emotions freely -- although it's possible that would happen automatically just from downloading her existing consciousness into a "vacant" body.

I don't know the emulation chip would be needed, or be enough in and of itself. My point is that the Androids who don't act like walking computers without their own goals/feelings, seem to have been modified in some manner, not necessarily related to the chip. It's an aid to mimic being a human so as to pass scrutiny, but the core of what makes the android (and her alt-counterpart, and presumably Victor, and others like the Ferrous suicide bomber) different (having independent desires, for one) seems to be in other things that are apparently not equal between a standard off-the-line model on the one hand, and a modified or bespoke one as those others seem to be.

I'm not sure about the Ferrous one, but using it as a bomb to blow up a space station is a highly illegal use and probably required some modifications. A similar reasoning goes for Wendy - most standard entertainment bots don't murder their owners.

 

[Christopher]

My point is that the Androids who don't act like walking computers without their own goals/feelings, seem to have been modified in some manner, not necessarily related to the chip.

Yes, their programming has been modified to function on a more complex level, more like a human consciousness. That shouldn't matter if all you need is a receptacle for a complete human consciousness that already exists. Sarah's already functioning with her full, intact personality inside a starship mainframe. All she needs is to download into a mobile platform she can use to move around in the physical world. The mental issues have already been taken care of (as you say, the chip is probably unnecessary, despite my initial assumption) -- it's just a matter of getting her a body. Any normal android body should be at least adequate to give her some mobility. We're not talking perfect emulation at this point -- she just wants something to let her move around and get out of her fantasy world. Sarah would probably settle for a C3PO-type body at this point, though presumably the producers would prefer one that can at least look like the actress. So it doesn't need to be some kind of perfect, special emulation. It just needs to be something with arms and legs.

 

[Wouter]

A human consciousness, in digital form, and an Android "brain" is not guaranteed to be 100% compatible - note how ordinary humans cannot accept the mindmeld-like state (with the Raza), Two/Portia can do so just barely (and not in a healthy way) and the Android does it without trouble.

JM says it is possible in the DM universe, but it wouldn't necessarily be a walk in the park, not even for the Raza gang. I guess Five can figure it out, as she pulled off the transfer to the mainframe. The Android's functioning may be even more complex, though.

 

[Marc]

From this past weekend at Comic Con, co-executive producer Jay Firestone elaborates on the whys of Derrick Moss' sudden death. (background chatter makes it difficult to hear his audio)

When you look at it from the story point Fireston'e argument is quite reason and think that writing the character out was a better way to go than the him being a 5th wheel.

Also Jay Firestone seems pretty confident on a season 4 at least (and five) so fingers crossed

 

[Wouter]

From this past weekend at Comic Con, co-executive producer Jay Firestone elaborates on the whys of Derrick Moss' sudden death. (background chatter makes it difficult to hear his audio)

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Thanks for the link!

Interestingly, Firestone says that One was killed - on his insistence - because he wanted that no character felt safe - emulating Game of Thrones. He did add later that it would be difficult to keep the character going on the Raza, because as a super-rich CEO he would go back to that life anyway. That must have caused some lively discussions, I'd imagine.

He also seemed to imply to have more influence in the writing process than I would have expected. He does not have any writing credits for the show AFAIK, nor was he part of the writers' rooms IIRC. As executive producer, I thought his duties lay more with the financing and selling off the show, but it seems he may have a hand in the creative decisions, as well.

On a more positive note, his remarks - about a key part of the show being that the Raza crew members should desire to be better than they were with full memories - do ring true.

When you look at it from the story point Fireston'e argument is quite reason and think that writing the character out was a better way to go than the him being a 5th wheel.

Also Jay Firestone seems pretty confident on a season 4 at least (and five) so fingers crossed

Let's hope so. I still want to see closure for One's arc, though.